Humminbird Side Imaging Forums
Other Interest => DIY - Side Scan Sonar and towfish => Topic started by: Rickard on July 10, 2012, 04:20:23 PM
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Hi,
I can report the Lowrance HD LSS-2 transducer can be used with a HB unit, at least with my 981. The LSS-2 makes it possible to get narrow SI beams, as narrow as with a "Doubleducer", but with less work, lower cost and probably with better over-all performance than what's possible with a homemade Doubleducer.
There is one complication, the LSS-2 has no downward 200 kHz channel. HB SI units use depth to control ping rate in the SI channels so the LSS-2 must be supplemented with a 200 kHz depth sensing transducer (almost all HB transducers can provide that). (Maybe there is a Y-cable that can facilitate the combining of the 200 kHz and SI/LSS-2 transducer?). The LSS-2 cannot be operated at 262 kHz, but it wouldn't come as a surprise if it can be used at 800 kHz, even if that's not stated in the manual. (I can't test at 800 kHz with my old 981.)
I couldn't get any wiring diagram or pin layout for the LSS-2, but some simple tests were all that was needed. I have indicated the function of the pins in the image. There are two ground pins with unclear function. One could be ground for temp and the other is probably a shield ground. None of the ground pins are needed to get SI work. Two pins are for the DI-channel, I don't use them either. Only the pin pairs for left and right SI channel must be used.
I have tested for one hour with a provisional arrangement and with the transducers hanging from a quay. I will be back with results from real scanning and with comparisons with the standard SI transducers.
Disclaimer: I can't guarantee there is no risk for damaging a unit. Anyone who tries this must do it at his/her own risk.
Added: My former reservation on the function of the upper, middle pin is withdrawn. That pin is positive temp, as indicated in the image. The ground pins should be connected to ground in the HB system. Testing showed this reduced noise to a noticable extent. The reason for two separate grounds is still not known.
Rickard
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Rickard, Hummmmmm I might try this with my old 987. Thanks for the pin out. post some screen shots!
Roddy
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Rickard, Thanks a lot for the info.....knew you could figure it out.
I've got too many things in the works right now to give this a try, but will be eagerly waiting to see your scan comparisons and may do the project when I get time.
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also waiting for results :)
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;D ;D ;D +1
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Hi Rickard
Thank you for your courage to risk your unit. :)
I'm really looking forward to the primal scans.
mvh
Rüdiger
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Rickard,
You really push the envelope on this tuff.
Way to go.
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Rickard,
What type of coverage area do you anticipate getting with the LSS2 transducer? I realize the beam width will be narrow due to the increased length of the piezo, but how about the beam angle?
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Whistler,
All I know is that Lowrance states a range of 250 - 300 feet to each side at 455 kHz. Lowrance doesn't present the vertical beam angle. Range could be different with a HB unit because of bad impedance match. Not using the down imaging array in the LSS-2 will reduce the interference stripes which Lowrance users must live with, this is the only prediction I dare make. I must wait a few days with my on water tests (I must entertain guests...), but I will report as soon as possible.
Rickard
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At last I got a few hours for testing on water. The conditions were not ideal with some wind which is a problem for my 12 feet, 65 lb folding boat. To begin with, the unit couldn't recognize the transducer and started simulation. This didn't happen in the first test. When the system was forced to operate in normal mode everything worked fine. I suppose the rat's nest connections is the explanation...
The test rig was pole mounted.
I try to upload some examples. The titles appear below the images. I should not manipulate your perceptions, but my very clear impression, especially when I was out scanning, was that the combination with the LSS-2 gives excellent results. I have some recordings with a homemade Doubleducer from the same targets and the LSS-2 beats those also. I will do some more testings and see if there are any long term effects on the unit and if there is any use for the ground circuits in the LSS-2.
Today I feel I will scrap the Doubleducers and go for the LSS-2.
Rickard
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Sounds good ,,,,Question for you...Do you need there black box ? l have access to a LSS1 transducer maybe l should try it ?
l have a couple of old HB Transducers l could cut the cord of one of them
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The Lowrance control box is not needed, just the transducer (they call it skimmer). The LSS-1 can't be expected to give better results than the HB SI or HDSI transducers since they are the same length.
Rickard
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Rickard, It looks like the image is sharp, but may be loosing signal at the outside of the range. This is the same problem Lowrance has with the Lss-1 and 2. What was your range setting?
I thought it was because of the additional software filtering they were doing to reduce the DI interference, but maybe it is the beam angle of the transducer?
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Bob,
Depth was around 12 feet and range was set to 100 feet (30 m). This range setting is far beyond what's considered useful at such depth. On water I noticed that the LSS-2 is much more sensitive than the standard HB SI. In fact, I had to set sensitivity to 15 with the SI transducer to see about the same result as with the LSS-2 set to 10. I think the inclination of the beams in the LSS-2 is about 30 degrees, same as in HB transducers, and the vertical beam width must be wider than in the SI 160 because there are no traces from vertical sidelobes. (The gap between mainlobe and first sidelobe show like a dark, fuzzy band on the sea-floor close the water column with the SI 160. This band is gone at 455 kHz with the newer HDSI 180 transducer.) A beam inclination at 30 degrees is good in a hull mounted application, but a bit too steep for use with a towfish.
Rickard
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hi rickard
intersting result,
do you make a difference between lls-2 and double ducer ?
i thing it's the same result, long array in llss-2 give more détail and better range
if you have pictures in double ducer vs lls-2 would you post them.
do you lost the 800 khz with the lls-2 ducer ?
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Abra,
I have no images from the Doubleducer and the LSS-2 which allow for fair comparison. But I have looked through several recordings from the same area and it's obvious the LSS-2 is superior. I have two Doubleducers and each of them has a good and bad channel, one has good left SI and the other has good right SI. The LSS-2 show the same performance in both channels. In theory, both the Doubleducer and the LSS-2 should have the same horizontal resolution because they are the same length, but the practical issues with making a Doubleducer use to cause some deficiencies. My Doubleducers are made from SI 160 transducers with 262 kHz capability which is very good for long range/deep water scanning, especially when a long cable is used which adds alot of attenuation. Since the LSS-2 is so sensitive this can possibly compensate for attenuation in a towfish application and make 455, and perhaps also 800 kHz more useful with long cables.
I can't test the LSS-2 at 800 kHz with my 981, but the US manual on the web tells the frequencies are 455 and 800 kHz. The international manual states only 455 kHz. The manual sent with my LSS-2, sent from the US, states only 455 kHz. Someone with a 800 kHz unit must test the LSS-2 so we know what's true.
Rickard
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Rickard,
Nice to see you use the LSS2.
LSS2 can use both 455 as well as 800 kHz on my NSE.
I suppose the cable type is the same as the bird's SI?
So the I can start to make a LSS2 towfish
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Keizerh,
I haven't cut the LSS-2 cable yet, It's easier to connect test wires to the connector pins as long as I'm in the testing phase of this. The cable feels thicker than a HB cable, and it's most likely a high-end twisted pair signal cable, but not an ethernet cable. Remember, the LSS-2 transducer must be used with a 200 kHz depth sensing transducer, so two transducer cables must be joined to a common cable to the surface. I don't expect any severe issues when doing that.
And thanks for the info on 800 kHz! Now many of us will be more tempted to try this for sure!
Rickard
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Friends,
After about 15 hours with testing I think it's time to present a wiring diagram for the combined HB - LSS-2 high definition sideimaging system. The setup has been tested in different conditions without any signs of damages to either the unit or the transducer. The system may have to be started by forcing normal operation at startup, that's the only sign of this sytem is not fully adapted to a HB unit. The system starts automatically if it is started with the transducers out of the water.
I must say I'm pleased with the quality of the images so far!
Added:
Latest testings with 50 m with ethernet cable showed the unit starts up normally without need for forcing normal operation. Image is excellent, although sensitivity must be stepped up a few levels. I can't say much about the difference in sensitivity between a Doubleducer and the LSS-2 when they are used with 50 m with cable. The impression is the LSS-2 performs better.
Rickard
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Thanks Rickard
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Yes thanks +2 Still looking at ways to connect the two transducer units together l have a old Lowrance tranducer and a HB one as well ,The Lowrance one is a smaller one than the HB, So l am thinking l might go... LSS2 Sidescan unit/ Lowrance 200Khz connected to a spliced HB cable. Still waiting for the LSS 2 to arrive Not cheap $300 landed
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Thanks all,
Trevor, you can use any transducer with 200 kHz capability for depth sensing, not only a HB transducer. A HB transducer will come with an appropriate connector, though.
Rickard
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Wouldn't the front mounted Lowrance transducer cause water disturbance on the rear mounted HB transducer?
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LittleGazoo, Yes, it will certainly cause water disturbance, but such turbulence has no effect on performance at all. Sound speed in water is too high for that.
Regards,
Rickard
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The combined LSS-2 - HB transducer (should I call it the LowBird system?) setup has now been tested with 50 m with ethernet cable, but not with a towfish. There is no degradation of image quality other than a general lowering of signal level. I can't say for sure if it's at the level of a Doubleducer, but it looks very good. The problem with having to force normal startup vanished!
I present an image from SiView that shows pretty well how the system performs in the hull mounted version. No editing of the raw HB/son2xtf/SiView data. Depth 30 feet, range 120 feet. The location is Bergnäsbron in Luleå river in Sweden. There are traces from interference between left and right SI close the water column, but not more than in any two-sided sidescan system.
Rickard
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nice job
lowbird work well
do you have the size of yhe lss2 ducer ?
i think it's so easy to make towfish with lss2 than hdsi ducer
i wonder if i do this, a lls2 cost about 320 €, if there's 455 and 800 khz, it's a good solution...
thank's to publish your result.
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Thanks Abra,
The straight part of the LSS-2 is 200 mm and I think the arrays inside have about that length. Since the arrays in the Doubleducer are 220 mm the Doubleducer should be slightly better, but the difference is negligible. Both are significantly better than the standard HB SI transducers and the LSS-1. At 455 kHz the one-way -3 dB beam widths in the standard transducers are about 1.6 degrees and in the Doubleducer and the LowBird the figures are half of that, 0.8 degrees. The only way to make the Doubleducer beat the LowBird in all respects is complete reconstruction like Sea-Rover did.
Rickard
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Looks great Rickard.....I think it works much better on the bird than on the intended unit. Don't see any indication of going dark at the outsides.
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Rickard,
The detail and clarity of the images produced by the lowbird seems impressive, but there also seems to be some problems with the images. Upon close inspection it looks like there is noise in the latest image you posted (visible at the bottom of the water column) and in some of the earlier images you posted there seems to be some significant ghosting on the image (in the second image you posted you can see the wall on the left side also reflected on the right side). Do you have any ideas what may be causing these issues and whether or not it is something you might be able to eliminate?
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Bob, I think one reason why the images seem better with a HB is the interference from the structurescan/DI array in a Lowrance unit. Since I don't (can't) use the DI array that issue is gone.
Whistler, if you mean the noise close the transducer it's mostly caused by reflections from the hull and the surface. If you mean the tiny bars on the sea floor I recognize them from other images from HB transducers (actually Doubleducers). I don't know why they appear, but they could indicate oscillation of something in the system, or they are software artifacts. The ghost-wall is typical with any transducer if something as reflective as that steel wall is passed. I think most of it is caused by sound that simply sneaks in from behind into wrong array.
Rickard
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I have been informed my experiments have been discussed and the LSS-2 + HB concept has been criticized on other forums. I have no time now for going into detail, but the first image examples from the LSS-2 were taken without use of grounds and shields in the LSS-2. This caused a high, general noise level and a very salient ghost image of the steel wall. These issues were solved by using ground. Look for the details, not the noise!
The LSS-2 image below is from the same location, but from the opposite direction and closer the steel wall, and with use of ground.
Rickard
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Hi Rickard,
Have you tried to see if the slight bar-code pattern (seen along the seabed) will go away if you just use the 200 kHz mode?
The slight bar-code pattern in your image look similar to the problems we found earlier:
http://forums.sideimagingsoft.com/index.php?topic=3890.msg23342#msg23342
(http://forums.sideimagingsoft.com/index.php?topic=3890.msg23342#msg23342)
i.e. ...Whenever the 83 kHz option is in use (or the 83/200 mode) there would be a degradation in quality of the recorded sidescan data.
Tore
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Tore,
I will try with the 200 kHz only setting next time I'm out. But I have found the other recording issue, the gaps, get worse with only 200 kHz, therefore I use 200/50 or 200/83 kHz as routine when recording. I think the gaps do more harm than the bar-code does.
Rickard
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test lss2 with towfish
i cut the lss2 cable and solder it in hdsi cable
i take the Rickard wiring diagram
i cut yelow cable and orange in hdsi cable and soldering lss2 cable in the part of cable to go at hdsi connector
and soldering other ground in ground hdsi cable (not cut)
diagram
best quality for lss2, every thing work well in first connect to unit
lss2 work in 455 and 800 khz
the way is open to long cable towfish
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Fantastic abra!
Thanks for the simple color code for wiring. Now we know for sure that it works well also at 800 kHz, and with good range. Yet another smoke proof Humminbird. ;)
Good luck with the towfish, you will probably be the first on this globe with a LSS-2/HB towfish system!
Rickard
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Hi Felix
Congratulations really good pictures. :)
Please post a picture of the towfish doublesducher arrangement and how did you seal the cable connection?
mvh
Rüdiger
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hi rudiger
for moment it's prototype (i arrange my first towfish)
the definitive is in study
for sealing i use sinto marine mastic who serve to seal in marine for windows and other thing
i make same arrangement as rickard do
i joint other comparative picture
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Hi,
I made a few scannings with the rotation metod using a LSS-2 in combination with a Humminbird Quadrabeam transducer (for depth sensing) and 150 feet cable. The results were as good as with a Doubleducer. The image shows a small (14 feet) boat with what seems to be an outboard. Depth is 25 feet. It was a bit cold, dark, 2 feet with snow and problems with battery connection etc, but the results were ok./ Rickard
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Excellent work. Maybe between the two pieces of equipment we can start to see what is under the water.
Many pats on the back to you..
Chuck
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Hi Rickard
Once again an excellent picture.
Have you scanned the same wreck ever with the old configuration, would be good even to have a direct comparison?
mvh
Rüdiger
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Thanks,
Rüdiger, it would be nice and scientific to make direct and fair comparisons, but I don't use the standard transducers anymore. They are joined into Doubleducers or mounted to the hull of my boat and some are stowed in drawers, awaiting other projects. I know from earlier comparisons that the Doubleducer is clearly better than the standard transducers and the LSS-2 has somewhat higher sensitivity than the Doubleducer, which gives the LSS-2 a bit better range performance. The better resolution with the Doubleducer and the LSS-2 is actually a trivial phenomenon since long element arrays must, because of laws of nature, produce narrow beams.
(The wreck in the image was registered for the first time this summer with a hull-mounted LSS-2.)
Rickard
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:D
nice picture, may be a ryds with a outdoors motor, the hull is break on left verry good picture
for other subject
i use Opencpn
i join on it a small search and rescue plugin, it make beautiful grird and generate gpx
i join pics of this system[attach=1]
this gird is made in one minute, you choose a point, distance long and espacement, number of vector, inclination and go
verry nice aplication and free.....
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Hi, i like the quality of your images. :) have any of you guys tried the lss 2 on the transom and used it to find fish? if so, did the lss find more fish/is it easier to see the fish with the lss? i think i saw some baitballs and fish on one of the images above, but they did not appear on the matching humminbird ducer image...?? is this because the lss is better or is there another reason? (i dont like to miss out on details like that...)
mvh stig
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Hi Stig,
Of course I have looked for fish even though I primarily use sonar for wreck searching. You can see fish in the images in the 10th post above. The names are Kista 160 SI 160.png and Kista LSS-2.png. Small fish, probably herrings, are visible with both transducers. Perhaps the LSS-2 image shows a bit better defined individual fishes, but the difference is small. The images are from different runs the same day. I can't say there is any practical difference between the transducers when it comes to fish finding.
Regards,
Rickard
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yes, whe can see fish
[attach=1]
lss2 455 khz
and this is a jellyfish at 800 khz Lss2 60m câble :)
[attach=2]
[attach=3]
i remember this day, towfish it a big one of this, and it make this picture
[attach=4]
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thanks for nice answers, of course the images are from different runs, and fish will appear difrent in the images. but its nice to know your thougths, and its good to know im not missing out on anything. (and dont need to spend a lot of money on a lss 2) :)
regards stig
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Are you sure that is a sonar recording or snapshot of the jellyfish. It looks more like a camera picture.
Chuck
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I think the picture represents what is in the SI snapshot below it.
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yes, for the jellyfish i'm sure
800 khz, Lss2, the towfish hit most of them in this scan sequence and before.
in hour country this jellyfish can take 1 or 1,5 m length and there's lot of near Fort Boyard (Oléron Island)
[attach=1]
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Bob B....that makes more sense. I was struggling with the view.....Glad he included both. Makes it nice to see in reality what the sonar is representing..
Chuck
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Thanks Rickard
Rickard,
I found it quite interesting that your Lowrance pinouts were different than I got from Lowrance Tech Support. I'm sure yours are correct or what you've been doing wouldn't work at all. I'm curious how you determined which was plus and which was minus. I have a project using the DI element and all I know is that it's on Pins 1 and 7. Is it just trial and error to determine which is ground? Is there any chance of harm to the unit or transducer if these are reversed?
Thanks.
Leonard
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Hi Leonard,
That's interesting, did they give you the complete pin layout? My method was measuring resistance and capacitance plus trial and error. Minus or plus doesn't seem to matter in the sonar circuits so I may use grounds in a way different from what Lowrance intended. One must always assume the unit can be damaged in such experiments. My unit has survived many short circuits and other rather dramatic events, though.
Rickard
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They did but I have my doubts that it is correct. Here is what they gave me.
1 grd
2 left +
3 left -
4 down -
5 down +
6 right +
7 right -
8 temp
9 xducer id
Some of these errors are irrelevant as the separate grounds become common, and you are not using the DI. I would like read your take on this on how it compares with your experience.
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Hi,
I think the list fits well to what I found. The only new thing is "xducer id" on pin #9. I don't know how they have arranged with this identity circuit, but it acts like an extra ground circuit in my application. I have tested with connecting - and + pins to ground and see no difference in performance. There should be slight differences in the beam to beam interference patterns (the stripes close the middle in the SI images). These patterns are weak the way I use the transducer (omitting DI) so there are no practical differences between the various ways one can connect - and + in the SI circuits.
Rickard
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I'm thinking about experimenting with this idea...
If I take the HB AS SIDB Y cable
( http://store.humminbird.com/products/322954/AS_SIDB_Y (http://store.humminbird.com/products/322954/AS_SIDB_Y) )....
And take the Lowrance 10EX-BLK
( http://www.boemarine.com/lowrance-10ex-blk-extension-cable-f-lss-1-or-lss-2-transducer/ (http://www.boemarine.com/lowrance-10ex-blk-extension-cable-f-lss-1-or-lss-2-transducer/) )...
And remove the HDSI leg of the AS SIDB Y ....
And splice in the female end of the 10EX-BLK...
Will this give me a viable "plug and play" Y cable for connecting the HB Dual Beam (for depth) and the Lowrance LSS-2...??
(I'm hoping this scenario would allow me to use the LSS-2 without actually cutting off the cable end of the LSS-2...the 10EX-BLK is much cheaper to sacrifice than the LSS-2...)
Rickie
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Hi,
Yes, it should work fine. Good luck! :)
Rickard
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Is it also possible to splice the Temp pin so that the temp probe in the LSS-2 would function correctly on the HB screen..??
Rickie
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The temp channel can be connected, but the reading will likely be wrong. The resistivity must be the same as in a HB transducer and the chance for that is very small. It could be worth trying, though.
Rickard
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I'm about ready to start my project modifying the AS SIDB Y cable to have a Lowrance connector on the "Side Image" leg of the Y cable...
Is there any concensus on what should be done with the #9 pin that LWinchester2 indicated (in Reply #52 above) is labeled by Lowrance as "xducer id"...??
Rickie
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Rickie,
I dont' know what the others have done with the "x-ducer id" pin, but I don't use it at all in my systems (I have two). There was no visible difference between using it, and omitting it so I think it's wise not using it.
Rickard
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Richie your da ducer going to look like a porkypine with all those transduducers on it.
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Richie your da ducer going to look like a porkypine with all those transduducers on it.
You are quite correct about that kosmo....lol
I may have to stick my foot down in the water on the other side of the boat from all the xducer drag stickin down in the water on the right front of my bow..
Rickie
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Rickie,
I dont' know what the others have done with the "x-ducer id" pin, but I don't use it at all in my systems (I have two). There was no visible difference between using it, and omitting it so I think it's wise not using it.
Rickard
Thanks Rickard...
When I cut into the cables (AS SIDB Y cable and the Lowrance BLK-10 extension cable)...will I find shielding that I need to connect to ground/drain...??
Rickie
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Rickie,
I have never cut any of those cables, but I bet they have shields, and if they have they should be connected to drain/ground as you suggest.
Rickard
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Rickie,
I have never cut any of those cables, but I bet they have shields, and if they have they should be connected to drain/ground as you suggest.
Rickard
Thanks Rickard...
I will post results when I get the setup ready..
(I'm still in process of testing the DI xducer setup and the rotated 60° HDSI xducer setup...)
Rickie
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(I'm still in process of testing the DI xducer setup and the rotated 60° HDSI xducer setup...)
Just a thought, the LSS-2 should be possible to operate as a sideimaging AND a DI transducer with clever use of swiches (and probably some soldering too). I haven't thought this thru, but such a system would likely beat any solution with standard HB transducers (due to the length of the arrays inside the LSS-2). It may also beat the results when the LSS-2 is used with its "home system", a Lowrance, since (as far as I know) the L can't operate the SI and the DI channels separately. The result is issues with interference in the Ls.
Rickard
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Just a thought, the LSS-2 should be possible to operate as a sideimaging AND a DI transducer with clever use of swiches (and probably some soldering too). I haven't thought this thru, but such a system would likely beat any solution with standard HB transducers (due to the length of the arrays inside the LSS-2). It may also beat the results when the LSS-2 is used with its "home system", a Lowrance, since (as far as I know) the L can't operate the SI and the DI channels separately. The result is issues with interference in the Ls.
Rickard
I'm already working on it Rickard...
Just received the LSS-2 "skateboard" yesterday...
My initial setup will be utilizing 2 separate AS SI DB Y cables modified for use with the LSS-2...(the Y cable will be an easier modification than the actual xducer cables...cheaper too...)
*One Y cable will be modified to operate the LSS-2 Downscan element...thru the right SI channel in the 1197c SI...
*One Y cable will be modified to operate the LSS-2 Sidescan elements...similar to your breakthru tests of the LSS-2...
I feel this initial testing of separating the LSS-2 "Downscan" in a separate component setup from the LSS-2 "SideScan" will give better testing results so I don't have to worry about the DownScan elements causing anything weird while operating the SideScan elements ...and vice-versa...
If 1 is not connected (SideScan elements or DownScan element) ...then it shouldn't have any way to cause conflict while testing the other....(wire channels I can do...wave theory and sidelobes and nulls I am in kindergarden....lol)...
After I get "on the water" results of the 2 separate setups (SideScan - DownScan) using the LSS-2 with my 1197c SI....then I will think about convenience using switches or whatever...
Rickie
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"Been there done that " My 1197 works very well with the LSS2 Transducer {With Rickards help } My down scan works fine. l shall post some snaps after l go out today for a fish
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"Been there done that " My 1197 works very well with the LSS2 Transducer {With Rickards help } My down scan works fine. l shall post some snaps after l go out today for a fish
I would be very interested in seeing your wiring setup to get both the Side elements and the downscan element connected to the HB SI unit...
Rickie
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Offroad ...I sent you my email address...
Just curious...does your wiring configuration utilize the LSS 2 DownScan element or is your DI views in your SI unit still processed as composite blend from the SI elements...??
Rickie
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l think its the latter,as composite blend from the SI elements...
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l think its the latter,as composite blend from the SI elements...
The wiring diagram you sent by email shows the +DI pin going to the 200kHz in the HB...!?
Is this correct...??...(I can't wrap my head around this as to why)...
Is your HB unit obtaining depth from this center DownScan element of the LSS 2...??
Rickie
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That's what's been done. As to it being correct l have no clue. All l know is it works. Maybe l should explain more, Putting the wires together was a suck it and see exercise ..Red goes to green....nothing there... so lets try Red goes to red .... yep that works .
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Hi Rickard
one year using towfish Lowbird (LSS2/HDSI) no problem
now i built a new side scan sonar, i think 60 m cat 7a ethernet cable, LSS2/hdsi
i have 8 wire in ethernet cable, i think using 2 wire connected at Down Lss2 wire, and use them with Y a second HDSI connector in one way left or right (455/800khz) and 200 khz too
What do you think about this ?
The down immage is product by an array at 455 khz and ducer at 200 khz ?
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That's what's been done. As to it being correct l have no clue. All l know is it works. Maybe l should explain more, Putting the wires together was a suck it and see exercise ..Red goes to green....nothing there... so lets try Red goes to red .... yep that works .
offroad....are using a second HB xducer (on the AS SIDB Y cable) with 200kHz for depth...??
Rickie
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Yes
its spliced in there as well
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i think using 2 wire connected at Down Lss2 wire, and use them with Y a second HDSI connector in one way left or right (455/800khz) and 200 khz too
Yes, Abra, that should work. I have always been a bit annoyed by not having any use for the extra wire pair in the ethernet cables. The result will be a transducer cable that is split in a Y at the connector end. One connector is used when the system is operated in sidescan mode and the other is used in downscan mode. Of course, it would be convenient to have a switch for toggling between the modes, but I don't know if any of the available switches can do that.
The extra connection between the DI element and the 200 kHz circuit in Offroads system probably has no effect since the 455/800 kHz DI element in the LSS-2 can't oscillate at 200 kHz.
Rickard
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The extra connection between the DI element and the 200 kHz circuit in Offroads system probably has no effect since the 455/800 kHz DI element in the LSS-2 can't oscillate at 200 kHz.
Rickard
Thanks Rickard...
That makes sense....
Rickie
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ok, i think testing the connection as i said on my next towfish >:D
now i built this, in few day i will publish the result.....
may be a good result at 800 khz in down scan ?
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LSS-2 is only for side scan?
If I install LSS-2 on HB i must cut off wires which goes to HB transducer? (just for info)..
Is there on the marcet any other side scan transducer for 455/800Khz?
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Hi,
If the transducers are hull mounted it's not neccessary to cut any cables. I use homemade wires to connect the LSS-2 and a Humminbird transducer to an extension cable. I use male and female pins from outdated printer cable connectors. The photo shows part of the setup I used this summer with no issues. The extension cable connector is hidden inside the tube to the left.
I saw a japanese fishfinder brand (forgot the name) affords a sidescan transducer that can be operated at 455 kHz, but the lenght is about the same as the Humminbird SI and HDSI transducers (and the Lowrance LSS-1) so the horizontal resolution is poor.
Rickard
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So if I understand well... You have 2 side scan transducer connected at the same time? first one is humminbird and second one is LSS-2?
Also I have the question about resolution let's say that if you buy a smartphone with bigger screen size you have major resolution what about this LSS-2 transducer? If you confront it with humminbird? You get better image quality with LSS-2 than with original humminbird 455/800Khz transducer?
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I did use a Humminbird SI transducers with an LSS-2 this summer just because the SI transducer was free at the time. But I only took the 2D downward signal from the Humminbird. All you need is a (any) transducer with 200kHz to measure depth.
The LSS-2 has better horizontal resolution because of its length, but this enhanced resolution is barely visible on the unit displays. But when recordings are shown with a 3rd party viewer in a computer it's easy to see the difference. Since I mainly use my unit for wreck searching the inspection of recordings is very important and I do all my scanning with an LSS-2.
Let's wait and see what the new Humminbird XNT-14-20-HDSI-T transducer can do (coming with the new ONIX models). Perhaps it will have better resolution than the SI and HDSI making all this risky transducer tweaking unneccessary?
Rickard
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I did use a Humminbird SI transducers with an LSS-2 this summer just because the SI transducer was free at the time. But I only took the 2D downward signal from the Humminbird. All you need is a (any) transducer with 200kHz to measure depth.
The LSS-2 has better horizontal resolution because of its length, but this enhanced resolution is barely visible on the unit displays.
Do you think that this is because the HB display was made to pair up with the HDSI transducer? Since the resolution of the HDS series is a little better do you think the LSS2 would look cleaner on it? Just curious. I haven't seen anyone split hairs so well, as yourself. :)
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Let's wait and see what the new Humminbird XNT-14-20-HDSI-T transducer can do (coming with the new ONIX models). Perhaps it will have better resolution than the SI and HDSI making all this risky transducer tweaking unneccessary?
Rickard
A OK! Humminbird will have newer better "bigger" transducer? Are there some comparision between actual transducer 455/800 and XNT-14-20-HDSI-T?
I'am also interested in better image quality / datas (sotred on SD card as files). I'am also inspecting wreck's and sunken objects (pipes, rocks) in the sea (depth between 12-24m)..
Will be XNT-14-20-HDSI-T compatible with 998 and other si units?
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I did use a Humminbird SI transducers with an LSS-2 this summer just because the SI transducer was free at the time. But I only took the 2D downward signal from the Humminbird. All you need is a (any) transducer with 200kHz to measure depth.
clear.. downward signal from HB transducer (2 wires).. and SI signal from LSS-2..
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Will be XNT-14-20-HDSI-T compatible with 998 and other si units?
They will probably say it's compatible only with the ONIX and maybe the ION models, but there use to be more options than specified. There are no comparisons with older transducers and the specs for the new transducer are incomplete and don't tell anything about dimensions and the horizontal beam width. Some vendors on the net present images and prices but those data are not reliable and the images are definitely from other and smaller transducers. We have to wait and see.
Rickard
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They will probably say it's compatible only with the ONIX and maybe the ION models, but there use to be more options than specified. There are no comparisons with older transducers and the specs for the new transducer are incomplete and don't tell anything about dimensions and the horizontal beam width. Some vendors on the net present images and prices but those data are not reliable and the images are definitely from other and smaller transducers. We have to wait and see.
Rickard
maybe all transducer which works on 455/800 Khz are compatible with HB/Lowrance.. Maybe HB will change only the connector shape ?! but this is not a problem.. ;)
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There are "unverified" reports this new XNT 14 20 HDSI T xducer is "digital"...
What little info I could dig up about "digital" xducers led me to this....
http://www.google.com/patents/US6667934 (http://www.google.com/patents/US6667934)
To say the XNT 14 20 HDSI T is anything compared to that patent is not known ...and is mere conjecture on my part...
If this new XNT 14 20 HDSI T xducer is constructed with circuitry in the xducer housing (similar to the patent noted above)....will it even possibly work with our xducer experiments...??
Rickie
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Hmmm, the old digital vs. analogue ordeal. I am a music enthusiast, and as most musicians know, the analogue sound of the vacuum tube is still sought after. 99% of musicians still perform live with a tube amp.
But, on the contrary, as far as visual appearance, digital is greatly superior to analogue. Compare the old tube tv's to the digital lcd screens.
I guess we will see how well the digital transducers do. Sound bandwidths sound infinitely better in an analogue format. I guess we will see how those digital soundwaves appear on a digital interface.......
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Hello Rickard and Abra, I have been using (successfully) my 898 with 50 metres of Cat7 patch cable and manage to obtain a range of 80 metres either side of the transducer. After reading of your success, I have purchased a Lss2 transducer to build another towfish. In your opinion, what can the maximum length of the cable be to obtain the same sort of range as I have achieved with the original transducer? I was thinking of making it between 60 and 100 metres in length. I am after a clearer picture of the seabed in my search for shipwrecks and marine infrastructure sites.
Regards
Peter
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Hi Peter
With my towfish i use 65 meters of cat7 cable, no problem, i can see fish, old structure (my new experiment is in lac of sanguinet, old structure of anciant built near jc ,age of steel, duggout, etc..)
the only problem is the 83 khz frequency who make a bat noise in picture, i publy pics in a next post.
the LSS 2 give a very good result.
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Peter,
Abra has used longer cables than I have so his advice are more reliable. My longest cable is 50m plus about 10m with Humminbird extension. In the winter I use the 50m cable with a special ice-scanning gear and can scan very far, how far depends on the reflectivity of the target/sea floor, but I have got results at 100m range in favorable conditions. Even the LSS-2 has its limitations and the horizontal resolution use to be too poor for my needs at distances beyond 50m. Therefore, I use 50m as standard setting in ice-scanning and with a towfish. When scanning with a hull-mounted gear I use 50m or 70m as standard settings. Remember, unnecessary long rang setting will reduce ping rate and cause worse resolution.
Rickard
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scan at 120 m side, for a big wreeck, 60 m cable lss2 , prototype towfish n° 2, the n°3 seem's better, i use it in 30 m depht for moment but if i can, i make scan with max range as soon as possible[attach=1]
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I'd just like to say how much I appreciate the contributions from Rickard and Abra to this forum. I have learn't so much from their input over the years. I certainly wouldn't have had an affordable towed sidescan without this forum. It is amazing what it will detect as I have found a number of wreck, stranding and infrastructure sites using my Humminbird 797, and later 898. The only problem I find that out on the ocean, and in strong currents my lightweight unit suffers from heave, distorting the bottom signal to some degree. I am in the process of building a longer towfish with more weight and have fabricated a 40 kilogram depressor weight to get the fish down deep and hopefully take out some of the heave. The weight will be on a separate rope with the towfish tied off and trailing behind.
Attached are a couple of happy snaps from my fish. The Marilla was a clipper ship that was burnt and scuttled in Port Phillip Bay, it was refloated after two years but timber work, and iron concretions were left behind as a footprint. Also, a picture taken out in Bass Strait when we were searching for an old paddle steamer; no luck yet. But you can see the affect of the heave action as the swell passed under the search boat. The last is of the unit and fish itself.
Thanks again; I will go for a 70 metre cable.
Peter
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hi PT
i test the independant lest there's 4 years, at this time whe work with seaspy magnetometer and the first prototype of towfish (80 m câble), whe make a hole around the towfish cable and ride on the lest cable, good result but when you turn, the lest sunk very fast and hit the ground.
now my definitive towfish is at 16 kg and i can put other lest in it, the nose cone goes out and whe put lest on pipe.
for 50 to 70 m its good
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I am in the process of building a longer towfish with more weight and have fabricated a 40 kilogram depressor weight to get the fish down deep and hopefully take out some of the heave. The weight will be on a separate rope with the towfish tied off and trailing behind.
I wonder about the combination with heavy depressor and heavy towfish. I think a heavy depressor should be combined with a near floating towfish that is trailed at least 10m behind the depressor. In fact, I can imagine a slightly floating towfish is optimal, because then you can make sure it travels a bit shallower than the depressor and you can even stop and let the depressor hit the sea floor while the towfish is safe. When a light towfish is used it will hang at the end of the horizontal towing line (between the depressor wire and the towfish) which means the effect of heave will be minimized. A heavy towfish will ride below the depressor and movements caused by heave may be carried over from the depressor wire to the towfish. It doesn't hurt if the towfish body is long, also.
This is what I think and what I have picked up from various sources. I have no practical experiance from such a system, though....
(I will, when time allows for it, test with adding floatation devices (a couple of stainless steel thermoses...?) to my heavy towfish to make it ride shallower, while keeping the benefits from its mass.)
Rickard
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Thanks again Rickard and Abra; I will post the results of the trials when they are complete.
This is how I propose to run the fish deep (when I need too).
Regards
Peter
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i do this system there's 4 years, it whork weel, the problem is 2 cable, and when the boat slow motion or turn, the ballast sunk verry fastly.
You can't sleep when you use this sytem. the avantage, if you give the ballast rope, the steel circle slide on the towfish cable and you can goes on more deep.
Whe use this system with a seaspy magnetometer too with verry good result.
i never use it again for towfish but it work.
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Hello Rickard and Abra,
The LSS2 is still a work in progress, the techie that I use is having a few problems and would like to know the following:
The following things I have little experience with.
Lowrance LSS-2
If?
Pins 1 & 7 are looking Down
and
Pins 2 & 4 are Looking Left
and
Pins 8 & 9 are looking Right
and
Pins 5,6 & 10 are ground/screen
Pin 3 is Temperature, supposedly.
Most will have noticed that there are no pins left?
What pins does the return signal come back on?
and
also if there is a power (+12v) where can it be?
I am obviously missing something.
I assumed that it is similar in connection to the Humminbird Transducer
but of course this does not appear to be so?
The Humminbird receiver connections are with success previously to Humminbird Transducer for friend are:-
Transmit (tx) pins 1& 2
Receive (rx) pins 3 & 4
Power (+12v) pins 5 & 6
Earth/screen/common pin 7
Thanks
Peter
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Hi,
The info and discussions on combining the LSS-2 with a Humminbird system may have been confusing. This has to do with the various ways this can be done depending on type of HB transducer used, if extensions are used and if cables are spliced, or not. I think all solutions presented in the forum are unique, but still functional. It's difficult to answer your questions on the specific pin #, because you seem to use numbers different from those I have seen.
The most enlightening figure that shows pin assignments and wire colors in the LSS-2 is found in Rickie's thread (the LSS-2 connector is shown at the bottom of the figure): http://forums.sideimagingsoft.com/index.php?topic=6426.msg38106#msg38106 (http://forums.sideimagingsoft.com/index.php?topic=6426.msg38106#msg38106)
Regardless of how the system is designed all drain, ground and "minus" wires in both transducers must be connected to the same ground pin in the HB connector that is plugged into the unit.
There is no separate power supply. All power is provided through the sonar channels (like in a loudspeaker with no internal amplifier.)
You ask about wires for "the return signal". It's not clear if you mean minus/ground wire or the state when the transducer receives sound. Minus/ground wires are shown in Rickie's figure. The same wire pairs are used when the transducer is transmitting and receiving. It's the unit that switches between these modes between pings.
Hope this helps
Rickard
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hi hall
it's time to make a repport for hybrid lowbird system
2000 scans with towfish in my 898 unit, no problem, towfish is a good solution to make good wreek picture and lot of thing.
aproximatively 500 scans with lowbird, the unique problem is noise made by 83 Khz. and the unit don't take 200Khz selected in all scans.
if you start in 200 khz it's good, you make selection in 200/83 or 83 khz, noise come in result , you select 200 again and the unit run in 200/83.
i think a bug in unit software ?
i ask this in humminbird france, they tell me that the 200/83 always work ?
i wonder if there's a solution to shot the 83 out in composant electonic system (desactive the resonator)
i make an experiment with a airmar 200 / 50 p55 ducer and LSS2 (a lowmar or lowair...) good result in 200 but if you put 200 /83 noise come again...
i want to find a unique 200 600 watt ducer, as someone get an idea ?
this type of ducer are old.
to finish
I'M VERRY ANDJOY WITH LOWBIRD :D, it come in all my travel for all achéologycal mission,
i join the new site of our association
http://www.arepmaref.fr/ (http://www.arepmaref.fr/)
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Thanks Rickard, I will pass this on to the techie and hopefully get it up and running: your help is much appreciated.
Also, using my 898 with 50 metres of cable, I have found four new wreck sites this year; they would not have been found without the Humminbird. A great product!
Regards
Peter
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Thanks Rickard, I will pass this on to the techie and hopefully get it up and running: your help is much appreciated.
Also, using my 898 with 50 metres of cable, I have found four new wreck sites this year; they would not have been found without the Humminbird. A great product!
Regards
Peter
It is important to note that the pin designations in my depiction at this link referenced... http://forums.sideimagingsoft.com/index.php?topic=6426.0 (http://forums.sideimagingsoft.com/index.php?topic=6426.0) ...is of the "custom LowBird Y cable" that I built to have "plug and play" capability of using the LSS 2 xducer on my HB 1197...
This means that the pin designations in my depiction are "mirror images" of the pin designations in the actual xducer cable connector ends...
Below is the pin layout of the actual LSS 2 xducer cable end....
(http://i477.photobucket.com/albums/rr134/rnvinc/LSS%202/null_zps02fd739e.png) (http://s477.photobucket.com/user/rnvinc/media/LSS%202/null_zps02fd739e.png.html)
Below is the pin designation of the actual LSS 2 xducer cable end...(starting at the 7o'clock pin position)...
(http://i477.photobucket.com/albums/rr134/rnvinc/LSS%202/null_zps154c0486.png) (http://s477.photobucket.com/user/rnvinc/media/LSS%202/null_zps154c0486.png.html)
__________________________
It is also important to note that the wire color designations (in the depiction of my LowBird Y cable) are the wire colors in the Lowrance XT 10BLK extension cable that I used to build my custom Y cable....
I did not cut the end off my LSS 2 xducer ...so I have no way to verify that the wire color designations in my custom Y cable carry into and thru the actual LSS 2 xducer cable....
__________________
It is again (and also) important to note (in the depiction of my custom Y cable)...that the pin designation for the HB HDSI xducer and the HB Dual Beam xducer are also "mirror images" of the actual xducer cable connector ends...
Here is the pin designations for the actual HB HDSI xducer cable end...
(http://i477.photobucket.com/albums/rr134/rnvinc/HB/null_zpsb4bd5280.jpg) (http://s477.photobucket.com/user/rnvinc/media/HB/null_zpsb4bd5280.jpg.html)
It is again (and also) important to note that the wire color designations (in the depiction of my LowBird Y cable) are the wire colors in the HB AS T Y cables that I used to build my custom Y cable....
I did not cut the end off my HB HDSI (nor the xducer I used for the Dual Beam leg)...so the wire colors of the actual HB HDSI xducers may be different than the wire colors of the HB AS T Y cables I used for my custom Y cable...
Rickie
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This means that the pin designations in my depiction are "mirror images" of the pin designations in the actual xducer cable connector ends...
Relax, Rickie, your wiring diagram clearly states FEMALE connector. This means it should be a mirror image of the male connector on the transducer cable end. I checked the wire colors in an LSS-2 transducer cable that has been cut and, fortunately, the colors are the same as in the Lowrance extension cable. But relying on wire colors is risky, the manufacturer can change the colors without notice. Pin designations don't change and the wire colors are important only when cables are cut and spliced. It's easy to check which wire goes with which pin once a cable is cut.
Rickard
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Thanks Rickard...I just didn't want PT to mistakenly use incorrect pin designations...
The "mirror image" pin designations were my most challenging part of getting all those wires lined up correctly...
It is good info that you checked the wire colors in the actual LSS 2 xducer cable...
Rickie
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Thanks to all, the wiring diagram was correct and I finally got out to test Lowbird. I mounted the Lowbird on the same fish as the 898 and hung it about one metre below my boat. I have 95 metres of cable on the Lowbird (still wound up) and the standard transducer cable on the 898. The new Lowbird worked fine, however, when I viewed the data through Humviewer I did notice the image to be more compressed (vertically) than the Humminbird's. I compared the two over the same distance and the same plane wreck in 9.5 metres of saltwater. (See images attached) Any suggestions for extending the compressed signal? Increase chart speed perhaps?
Regards
Peter
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Glad to see you succeeded with the Lowbird! I don't know of any reason for the Lowbird system to give more "compressed" recordings than the standard transducer. The length of a recording (i.e. number of pings) is a function of several factors: depth, SI range setting and boat speed. The scroll/chart speed setting in the unit does not affect the recording, it only affects the appearance of the image on the display. If the image really gets more compressed with the Lowbird it could mean depth is not measured properly. No depth info will result in very low SI ping rate and a very "compressed" recording.
Rickard
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PT...how are you obtaining your 200kHz 2d...??
Rickie
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Hello Rickie, I didn't actually get 200 kHz depth, the Lowbird image didn't attach (my mistake) to yesterday's reply. Yesterday's was the comparison image from the 898 so as I will attach the Lowbird image to this post. Also, without a depth reading Reefmaster won't display the sidescan data from the Lowbird file (it does play in Humviewer). I have used Reefmaster to stretch out other data I have collected out in the ocean where the swell affected my towfish (which was a too light and suffered from heave).
Regards
Peter
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Peter,
2D 200 kHz info is required for presentable sidescan results. When you have added a 2D/200 kHz/depth channel all issues with compressed recordings will be gone.
Rickard
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Peter,
2D 200 kHz info is required for presentable sidescan results. When you have added a 2D/200 kHz/depth channel all issues with compressed recordings will be gone.
Rickard
PT..I agree with Rickard...(well..really I "defer" to Rickard because he's way more versed in this than I)...
But I'm confused on your LowBird setup...
Is there a 200kHz 2d piezo element connected in your LowBird cabling setup somehow...??
If there is not...you can hook your LowBird cable end to the "Side imaging" leg of the HB AS SIDB Y cable ...
Then connect an additional HB xducer (capable of 200kHz)...to the "Dual Beam" leg of the HB AS SIDB Y cable ....
This will allow the HB head unit to obtain 200kHz 2d depth data...(while the SI data is collected thru your LowBird cabling setup)...
Rickie
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Well, I can see what I have done wrong, I only have the Lowrance transducer spliced into the computer cable. I haven't connected up a second transducer to collect 2D 200kHz depth data. Can this be spliced into the cable?
Thanks
Peter
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hi Pt
for 200 khz use pin 6 and 7 in the humminbird connector (picture in subject)
your towfish sim's well done, in the begining the LSS2 scan seem's more different than hum, but they are better and corectly referenced .
for me the only problem is the 83 khz
he make noise on scan !!!
i test a 200 / 50 khz (airmar) in place of 200/83 Khz, no good result at 83 khz, i don't know if a only 200khz is the solution
has someone know if there's one 83/200 khz resonator or two diferent in unit ? (if it's this i can cut the 83 one)
the 83 khz make a bar code in picture (wreek at 83 khz)
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i test a 200 / 50 khz (airmar) in place of 200/83 Khz, no good result at 83 khz
You must select the"Sidescan" transducer in the transducer select menu (if that menu is present in your unit) to have 50 kHz in the 2D channel. I think all other transducer settings give 200/83 kHz. A 50 kHz transducer that is fed with 83 kHz won't produce anything. Unfortunately, the Sidescan setting doesn't produce 800 kHz, only 262 and 455 kHz.
50 or 83 kHz is not needed for sidescanning. Most of the time I only use 200 kHz in 2D to save power, reduce workload in the unit and save memory space when recording.
I don't recognize any problems with interference when using 200 and 83/50 kHz, so there is some risk you are unique...
Rickard
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I was wondering, would it matter in making the Lowbird SS towfish. Does LSS-2 and other transducer interfere with each other. I mean how far do they have to be apart from each other, and would it be better do have the other transducer in front of LSS-2 ?
Comments would be appreciated. I´m into the making of mine own these days.
DE.
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I have never noticed any interference between the other tranducer (the 2D transducer) and the LSS-2. I don't think it really matters, but it could be wise mounting the other transducer after the LSS-2 to eliminate any influence from turbulence on the sidescan image.
Rickard
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Ok I thought it would be better other way around..? , because the other transducer get the pings for the LSS-2. But I expect it wont matter it is so small gab between them.
Thanks for your fast reply Rickard.
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The downward sensing 2D transducer and the LSS-2 operate as two independent transducer systems. The sidescan ping frequency in the LSS-2 is controled by the head unit, and the head unit uses information on depth from the downward 2D part of the system to do that. The 2D transducer and the LSS-2 do not communicate directly. That's why I say the relative position of the transducers probably doesn't matter.
Rickard
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I have a problem with the depth on my Humminbird 1198 when i use the LSS-2 .
Its not a steady signal .
Also on Down scan its not working
Anybody a solution ?
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I have a problem with the depth on my Humminbird 1198 when i use the LSS-2 .
Its not a steady signal .
Also on Down scan its not working
Anybody a solution ?
The LSS 2 does not have a 2d piezo ... The HB units use the 200kHz 2d Sonar for digital depth ...
How is your system obtaining 200kHz 2d that the HB requires for digital depth ...??
-----
Also the DI piezo and the SI piezoes in the LSS 2 are 2 completely different functions ... The HB 1198 SI and DI are the same function ... The HB SI unit does not have a dedicated DI channel for obtaining data from a DI piezo ... The HB SI unit uses the SI channel(s) data and computer generates the SI data to "look like" a DI image ...
In other words ... One cannot wire the DI piezo and the SI piezoes from the LSS 2 into the HB 1198 at the same time and obtain SI imaging and dedicated DI Imaging ...
It has to be wired such that the LSS 2 DI piezo is used without the SI piezoes Connected ...
And conversely (and separately) wired such that the LSS 2 SI piezoes are used without the DI piezo Connected ...
Please explain your connections from the 1198 xducer wire channels to the LSS 2 piezoes ...
Rickie
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I have tried to scan with only a LSS-2 and connect all the wires from the LSS-2 directly into the HB .
But I understand now that is not possible .
So I shall use the HDS only for depth and the LSS-2 for SI ?
And what is the correct connection when i use both transducers ?
Grt Andre
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I have tried to scan with only a LSS-2 and connect all the wires from the LSS-2 directly into the HB .
But I understand now that is not possible .
So I shall use the HDS only for depth and the LSS-2 for SI ?
And what is the correct connection when i use both transducers ?
Grt Andre
It is important to have a 200kHz 2d Connected to the HB unit for digital depth ... The HB unit also uses the 200kHz data is some algorithm processing into the SI Imaging ...
The easier way to obtain 200kHz 2d (along with a LSS 2 connection Setup) is to use the AS SIDB Y cable ...
http://www.humminbird.com/Products/AS-SIDB-Y/ (http://www.humminbird.com/Products/AS-SIDB-Y/)
*Connect the Dual Beam leg of the AS SIDB Y cable to any HB unit capable of 200kHz 2d that has the house shaped 9pin connector ...
*Connect the Side Imaging leg of the AS SIDB Y cable to the LSS 2 SI piezoes ...
*You can also adapt a 2nd AS SIDB Y cable such that the right SI channel of the Side Imaging leg (of the AS SIDB Y cable) connects to the LSS 2 DI piezo ... This will only give a right SI image on the HB SI - the data would be coming from "straight down" under the LSS 2 - the HB DI image would look normal (because the HB unit would "think" the data is coming from a right SI piezo thru the right SI wire channel) ...
The above would give 2 separate adapter cables for using the LSS 2 on the HB unit = 1 adapter cable for LSS 2 SI in the HB unit and 1 adapter cable for LSS 2 DI in the HB unit ...
-----
Are your current LSS 2 connections hard wired into the unit somehow ...or have you created an adapter cable of some sort ...??
Rickie
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Hi Rickard: I know this post was a long time ago, but do you know the humminbird transducer pinout info?
I'm looking to hook up a garmin GT40-TM to my 997c si unit because it has a narrower horizontal beam width and showed better range on the Garmin unit, with the same wattage. Thanks!
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Hi John,
In post #103 above you can find an example on pinout. That chart shows the pinout in a sideimaging transducer, but the same configuration is used with the quadbeam transducer. I have never used a downward-only transducer, but the pins for 200/50 kHz (or 200/83 kHz) and ground must have the same locations in all transducers.
Rickard