Topic: Answer from Hummingbird staff regarding update 6.6xx problems !!

[Kim Christiansen]

Hello All

Please see Correspondence below with Hummingbird staff .. Denise-CRC & Juanita.


Den 25-03-2013 22:58, service@humminbird.com skrev:
Dear Kim,   
 
Thank you for contacting Humminbird. We appreciate your interest in our products.
 
The only thing with going back to version 6.250, as previously mentioned, you will Never be able to upgrade the units to the most current version software if you go back. 

Update by RGecy 4/8/13 - Clarification to the above statement: You CAN update even if you go back, but it would not be compatible with Humviewer.  This has been resolved with latest updated to Humviewer in version 81.
 
If we can assist you further on this subject or any other Humminbird related questions please feel free email us again or contact our Customer Resource Center at 1-800-633-1468 to speak with a Customer Service Representative. Our hours are Monday thru Friday 8:00 a.m. to 4:30 p.m. and Wednesday 8:30 a.m. to 4:30 p.m.
 
Good Boating and Fishing!
 Denise - CRC
 
From: Danas Have Denmark !!! <danas-have@danas-have.dk>
Date: Mar 20, 2013 2:44:57 PM
To: service@humminbird.com
Subject: Re: Contact Us


Hello Customer Resource Center

Thank you for your response.

We are 4 with 797c2 , and 2 with 798, which exchange DAT.filer with each other for use in Humviewer.

So i need to go back to a previous version where I can use Humviewer.

1. Is there a version between 6,250 and 6,610 where I still can use Humviewer and receive some of the new fixes for ver.6.250.

2. Can you send me a link to the previous version, which I
can download and use in the device.
When buying 6,250 vas installed, but I hope I can use a newer ver., between 6,250 and 6,610

3. In your answer, you wrote:.
You will Also never be able to upgrade the unit once you have gone back to the previous version software.

4. Can you you confirm that? and what do I do in the future with updates?

Sincerely,
Kim Christiansen



Den 20-03-2013 19:09, service@humminbird.com skrev:
Dear Kim,     
 
Thank you for contacting Humminbird. We appreciate your interest in our products.The sontx file is no longer compatible in regards to viewing the sonar recordings via humm viewer on your PC. If we were to take you back to your previous version software you will no longer have 360 or ipiloet capability. You will also never be able to upgrade the unit once you have gone back to the previous version software.
 
If we can assist you further on this subject or any other Humminbird related questions please feel free email us again or contact our Customer Resource Center at 1-800-633-1468 to speak with a Customer Service Representative. Our hours are Monday thru Friday 8:00 a.m. to 4:30 p.m. and Wednesday 8:30 a.m. to 4:30 p.m.
 
Good Boating and Fishing!
 
Juanita
 
 
 
From: danas-have@danas-have.dk
Date: Mar 19, 2013 2:08:31 PM
To: service@humminbird.com
Subject: Contact Us

First Name: Kim
Last Name: Christiansen

Questions or Comments: Hi I just updated my 798 ci Si HD Combo from ver.6.250 to ver.6.610. I used the download from Hummingbird My Account. It seems that everything works fine, except when I record in the simulation mode of the device. I do not use 360, but normal sidescan I can not play recorded DAT.filer on Humviewer ver.67. Snapshot are OK. But not recorded DAT files. I had no problems before using ver.6.250! Can you please help me? Sincerely, Kim Christiansen



Kim Christiansen

[strawdg]

OK....... This is as clear as mud.....

I personally would NOT go back that far anyway. BUT as I stated in a previous post I am not locked into Humviewer.

There have been indications that Humviewer may possibly be updated.  I don't see as of yet that it is still active. So to back up for Humviewer which may no longer be active SURE BURNS a lot of bridges....

Straw

[xSilmarilSx]

Humminbird should just buy HumViewer, update it, and incorporate it in HumminbirdPC.

It should not be that hard to do!

[Rüdiger]

Humminbird should take a lesson from Lowrance, who have their own software.

mvh
Rüdiger

[ITGEEK]

Why complain to Humminbird about software they
did not even create?
Do people enjoy giving the Humminbird Customer resource
folks grief?

[sonar2000]

I am not clear on the statement about going back level.  Is HB saying that if we upgrade and have a problem with the new code, Then go back to the previous level while waiting on a fix  That we will never be able to upgrade again.
Is this correct?
chuck

[sonar2000]

Humminbird should take a lesson from Lowrance, who have their own software.

mvh
Rüdiger

+ 1   If we cant review the sonar scan then the HB is useless for SAR...
chuck

[strawdg]

I am not clear on the statement about going back level.  Is HB saying that if we upgrade and have a problem with the new code, Then go back to the previous level while waiting on a fix  That we will never be able to upgrade again.
Is this correct?
chuck

Chuck....

That's not the way I read it. I could be wrong but, it looks like HB is saying that if you are locked into Humviewer, and Humviewer is not keeping up with the new data formats, then you are stuck with the last firmware Humviewer works with...

If I am correct then nobody can blame HB for that....

Straw

[Kim Christiansen]

Hello all.

Maybe we can get "Greg" to explain to us what we should do if a unit upgrade is not working properly.

If we can not return to a previous unit version, and what do we do in the future.

Please see previous copy below from Hum staff.
The only thing with going back to version 6.250, as previously mentioned, you will Never be able to upgrade the units to the most current version software if you go back.

Sincerely,
Kim Christiansen

[strawdg]

I read that, Like I said I was keying on the Humviewer part....

HB and Greg send update back-outs all the time because so many of their updates appear to be BUGGY....

If they change to where we CAN'T back-out then NOBODY will ever update (I know I sure won't).....

Then units will be effectively obsolete when new hardware is released.....

We shall see.....

Straw

[sonar2000]

Chuck....

That's not the way I read it. I could be wrong but, it looks like HB is saying that if you are locked into Humviewer, and Humviewer is not keeping up with the new data formats, then you are stuck with the last firmware Humviewer works with...

If I am correct then nobody can blame HB for that....

Straw

OK I thought I was confused and just wanted to make sure I was.  Thanks for steering me straight.
chuck

[RGecy]

Greg is doing some training this week and may not be able to check in. 

This is the first I have ever heard about not being able to update if you go backwards to a previous version.  I think it is incorrect and doesnt make sense.  I know there was an update a few years ago that once you went forward, you couldnt go back to a previous version because of the change in the way the firmware updated, but saying you CAN go back but then you cant go forward again makes no sense.

I dont know why, but I would imagine this is just their way of trying to keep you from going back to a previous version. Many people have done this and it is not a problem.

***UPDATE: I spoke with Greg on the phone and he had not heard this either.  He is going to investigate and get back with me when he can.

Robert

[mcipinkie]

Sounds to me like some one needs to be getting into the Humviewer developer's britches about why his software won't work with latest HB products.

You can't expect HB to write software that works with every Tom, Dick and Harry's wild hair, proprietary program.

I think, with very few exceptions, HB does an exemplary job of producing products for the FISHERMAN !!  I've been running HB's since the old Super Sixty's in the early 70's, tried a couple of the competition's products and went back to HB.

If you have other expectations than catching fish, I believe the onerous is on YOU !!

[ITGEEK]

The developer of Humviewer worked hard on the software
and made it available to everyone completely free of charge.

He's not obligated in any way to update it.

[TroyBoy30]

and humminbird has no obligation or care if it works

[ITGEEK]

Well, you are correct in that Humminbird has no
obligation to do anything about it, since they did
not originally write it.
But, I don't think that Humminbird wants unhappy customers.
Perhaps Humminbird is working on it's own version.

[matt@reefmaster]

Well, you are correct in that Humminbird has no
obligation to do anything about it, since they did
not originally write it.
But, I don't think that Humminbird wants unhappy customers.
Perhaps Humminbird is working on it's own version.

At the end of the day all Humminbird has done is update one of it's internal file formats. They can't be expected to retain existing file formats forever to ensure compatibility of third party applications. Many existing file formats in the GPS/Sounder world are getting on a bit and conceived at a time when memory was a lot more expensive than it is now so I'd expect plenty of updates in coming years.
Having said that, Humminbird could be smart and open up its file formats, so that creating and updating these types of applications is easier. I know that the Humminbird line is that the formats are proprietry etc etc, but given that Humminbird itself doesn't create or market its own competitor software - let's face it, HumminbirdPC is getting on a bit - they would do well to acknowledge the extra value to their brand that is generated by having an eco-system of compatible software. Apple seemed to do alright out of it
If Humminbird were to release details of their file formats, updates to existing software at times like these would be much, much easier - although I'm not holding my breath. Greg?

Matt

[mcipinkie]

I see it entirely different. If there was a viable market, even a small niche market, then Humviewer's developers would keep it working. Only a very select few people use this product. I have an old DOS based construction scheduler that I use in my consulting business. It was state of the art thirty years ago. I don't expect it to run on Win 8. I still use it, but have to deal with it on my own. It's on diskettes. Try to find a laptop with a diskette drive.

Regarding HB file formats:  whomever wrote HV figured it out once.  I bet they could again if enough demand.

I'm getting out of this conversation with my partner and my rule: SHUT AND FISH!!(expletives deleted).

[RGecy]

Its figured out! I broke alot of the original code and this addition is pretty simple.  Martin has not needed to update it in several years since the last format change.

Robert

[Kim Christiansen]

Hello all.

Thanks for all the good answers.

It is now clear that we need a change in Humviewer
software or find another side scan viewer program
for the future.

Next question:

Can we update our Hummingbird unit to the last update. and if there are errors. then return to the previous version.

Or according to Hummingbird support staff : Denise-CRC & Juanita.
See copy below.

The only thing with going back to version 6.250, as previously mentioned, you will Never be able to upgrade the units to the most current version software if you go back.

Could it be that Hummingbird have made changes in their newer software updates, from ver 6.6xx >> , so that we can not go back and forth again.

If this is true, what do we do in the future with new updates.

Sincerely,
Kim Christiansen

[TroyBoy30]

ive gone from 6.600 to 6.610 to 6.490 several times.  there has always been a point that if you go too far back, you wont be able to go forward.  thats what shes talking about and it's not new

[sonar2000]

There are installed code levels that ship with the unit and are set at that level because of physical components. Going back beyond that level is strongly not advised. However forward and backwards with in the codes related to the units physical components has not been a problem in the past. I wouold suggest staying within the limits of the units date of manufacture and future upgrades. Dont go back before your manufacutre date.

See this thread also.
http://forums.sideimagingsoft.com/index.php?topic=5342.msg33554;topicseen#new

Chuck

[rnvinc]

I keep my current version software AND previous stable version software with my unit at all times for testing and comparison...(on separate SD cards)..

It takes me 2 minutes to load 6.310 back into my unit to be able to make a "Humviewer compatible" recording...

Aggrivating..??....somewhat....
Workable...??....absolutely...

Martin will catch up ....in his time...

Rickie

[strawdg]

Martin will catch up ....in his time...
Rickie

Or not.... that is strictly up to Martin..... you can never tell..... He may be beyond messing with it....... Is that something HB caused ....... NO..... It is what it is....

My hopes are that Humviewer continues but.....

Straw

[RGecy]

Yall.....Relax.....I have been in communication with Martin, it is a simple fix and I am sure he will be able to get you back up and running soon.

Robert

[Humminbird_Greg]

Kim,
All they were saying here is (assuming that Martin does not ever update his HummViewer software): for your units to make compatible files to work with HummiViewer you will not be able to update your Humminbird units again.  The reason for this is that the next version of software for your Humminbird units and every version after it would also have these same changes to the sonar recording files, which would not work with HummViewer.  With all of the postings here I’m betting that they should have done a better job of stating this.

[Kim Christiansen]

   Hello all.

@ Greg.
Thanks for your reply, I understand the problem with Humviewer regarding Hummingbird Units version update in the future.

After all the answers, I also understand that one can still revert to a previous version if there are problems with the new version update.

But no further back than the Hummingbird units software version upon purchase.
I had a hard time understanding Hum supports answer clearly ...

@ RGecy
We are all waiting anxiously on news from you and Martin
regarding Humviewer.

Sincerely,
Kim Christiansen

[LittleGazoo]

Kim,
All they were saying here is (assuming that Martin does not ever update his HummViewer software): for your units to make compatible files to work with HummiViewer you will not be able to update your Humminbird units again.  The reason for this is that the next version of software for your Humminbird units and every version after it would also have these same changes to the sonar recording files, which would not work with HummViewer.  With all of the postings here I’m betting that they should have done a better job of stating this.

One of my main concerns with Humminbird and software releases is you NEVER KNOW what you are getting with side effects.

1) HB releases new Waypoint Management System and FAILED to document that HB programmers changed the HB Track Data Format.  Side effect was third-party products using tracks would fail to transfer from HumminbirdPC to units.  Customers and HB Support did not know what problem was for months.

2) Now HB changes the Sonar Recording Data Format without a word of documentation.   Side effect was all third-party sonar recording products now failed.  HB has no sonar recording product, but HB broke all we had.  And viewing sonar recording on my 1197 at a snail's pace is useless.  When I speed viewing up I get display garbage.

HB needs to get the system engineer programmers to have better control, awareness and responsibility.
QED

[Kim Christiansen]

@ Little Gazoo.

 Thanks for your reply, you're right, Hummingbird Support can at least inform us about the changes that will affect us and in our use of Hummingbird units in their updates.

 They just need to write:
 Some program changes can maybe cause problems on the 3-party applications.

 I have created a new Topic:
 2 x freeware alternatives two Humviewer!

 Sincerely,
 Kim Christiansen

[Humminbird_Greg]

“Some program changes can maybe cause problems on the 3-party applications.”

That’s not a bad idea Kim.
Problem is: it would appear on every software version as Humminbird does not test its products with 3rd party software or 3rd party devices.

[LittleGazoo]

“Some program changes can maybe cause problems on the 3-party applications.”
 
Problem is: it would appear on every software version as Humminbird does not test its products with 3rd party software or 3rd party devices.

Humminbird  KNOWS customers HAVE TO use third-party products to view sonar recordings.  Viewers HAVE TO read and process the sonar recording records.  Humminbird DOES KNOW if they change the recording data format, that it will break the viewers.  A programmer and a product manager will KNOW THIS, no testing necessary!!!

[Gator]

Humminbird should just buy HumViewer, update it, and incorporate it in HumminbirdPC.

It should not be that hard to do!

I agree 100 %

[strawdg]

Not sure.... it is somewhat cryptic.....

BUT please don't skip over THIS:

Kim,
All they were saying here is (assuming that Martin does not ever update his HummViewer software): for your units to make compatible files to work with HummiViewer you will not be able to update your Humminbird units again.  The reason for this is that the next version of software for your Humminbird units and every version after it would also have these same changes to the sonar recording files, which would not work with HummViewer.  With all of the postings here I’m betting that they should have done a better job of stating this.

Plus remember Greg often sends update back outs from 6.57+ to people who request them....

Straw

[strawdg]

Whoops.... My above was posted to wrong thread.... sorry...

Straw

[rnvinc]

Humminbird  KNOWS customers HAVE TO use third-party products to view sonar recordings.  Viewers HAVE TO read and process the sonar recording records.  Humminbird DOES KNOW if they change the recording data format, that it will break the viewers.  A programmer and a product manager will KNOW THIS, no testing necessary!!!

One point we need to recognise in this conversation is that HB does, indeed offer a sonar viewer for the HB recordings....in the unit itself....

Albeit, not as user friendly as Humviewer or some of the other 3rd party viewer....

But we cannot expect HB to base their marketing decisions on any feature of their own products with regards to 3rd party programs ...of which HB has no control...or vested interest in...when HB already offers a "free" sonar viewer...in the unit...

HB did not have to allow the unit to even incorporate any type of recording or playback feature...but they did...for us the consumer...and it's entirely encompassed in the 1 package...the HB unit...

I enjoy Humviewer as much as anyone....but I also realize HB makes not one single dime for any feature or user experience that Humviewer provides...

2 minutes and I can reinstall 6.310 into my 1197 to make a "Humviewer compatible" recording...

Also 2 miinutes and I can reinstall 6.610 to use the AS GPS HS...

Rickie

[Gator]

Not to change the subject, but I went to a HB seminar and they had a unit hooked to a projector. Is there a way for me to connect my 998 to my tv? If so I counsel use the play back feture of the unit itself. Which would be great.

[strawdg]

Not to change the subject, but I went to a HB seminar and they had a unit hooked to a projector. Is there a way for me to connect my 998 to my tv? If so I counsel use the play back feture of the unit itself. Which would be great.

Absolutely, you just need the video cable for your unit... like this one: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0012IYYZG/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_5?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

EDIT: I don't know why Amazon only lists the cable as for the 1100 series, the VC 1 also fits the 998 according to HB.

Straw

[Moose1am]

One of my main concerns with Humminbird and software releases is you NEVER KNOW what you are getting with side effects.

1) HB releases new Waypoint Management System and FAILED to document that HB programmers changed the HB Track Data Format.  Side effect was third-party products using tracks would fail to transfer from HumminbirdPC to units.  Customers and HB Support did not know what problem was for months.

2) Now HB changes the Sonar Recording Data Format without a word of documentation.   Side effect was all third-party sonar recording products now failed.  HB has no sonar recording product, but HB broke all we had.  And viewing sonar recording on my 1197 at a snail's pace is useless.  When I speed viewing up I get display garbage.

HB needs to get the system engineer programmers to have better control, awareness and responsibility.
QED

I totally agree.  HB software Quality Control needs a lot of work.

[Humminbird_Greg]

Absolutely, you just need the video cable for your unit... like this one: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0012IYYZG/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_5?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

EDIT: I don't know why Amazon only lists the cable as for the 1100 series, the VC 1 also fits the 998 according to HB.

Straw

It will also fit the 800 series units as well.

[ITGEEK]

Rickie hit the nail on the head.
Humminbird probably had good reason to
change their sonar recording format.
Possibly to include information from the 360.
I have no idea why they did it, but in the long run
it will probably be for the better.

Any unit you buy from them, you will be able
to view the sonar recordings on the unit.
That fulfills their obligation to their customers.
They can't worry about what other sonar viewing
software is out there, or if it works or not.

It's not their concern, and I'm sure their customer
service people are getting sick about hearing about
Humviewer not working.

[mcipinkie]

Count me in with Rickie and ITGEEK.  You people need to go fishing and quit playing with your computers or what ever it is you are playing with.

[Gator]

Ordered my vc 1 video cable today.... This will work even better than humviewer.

[RGecy]

A new version of Humviewer has been released.  Click here:  Humviewer 81 

Robert

[strawdg]

A new version of Humviewer has been released.  Click here:  Humviewer 81 

Robert

Oh.... things are looking up......

Straw