Topic: SSS in between klein and imagenex

[GM]

Hello,

Ive been searching for a while a SSS as not as expensive as the klein and as not as cheap as the imagenex yellowfin. Ive heard that there is a good one in between those, marine seatronics but havent found any with that name so far.

Id be grateful if someone could suggest me some options for this, thanks.

Happy New Year 2012,

[abraquelebout]

i think it's this
http://marinesonic.us/
but i don't know the price and it's hight resolution system
our system with custom towfish may be a low cost and good solution for scaning,
now  ;)in 2012 i must compare klein system vs custom humminbird towfish.
one of my friend give me access to klein 3900 may be in feb.2012
experiment must be interresting...

[GM]

Thanks abraquelebout for your answer, yeah marine sonics, that one was, so you dont about its performance, the images in the website are quite nice, someone would recommend it?

what about software to process SSS data and to make mosaics? sonarwiz appears everywhere, which would you recommend? Ive heard about GeoTexture of Kongsberg, does someone know about it?

Itd be great to know details and images after your experiment, it really sounds great.

Happy Holidays

[abraquelebout]

hi gery
i use drdepht for mosaicing, deepviewer, humviewer, yellowfin
i make an experiment in sonarwizz, it's so strong and not easy for aproximatly same result (for me...some peapole prefer wizz)
i get towfish with 60 m cable and now a 898 si,
principal use for archaeology
i join some picture
anciant anchor on rocks, anchor of wreeck, motobike, car, anciant wooden wreek may be 400 or 700 after jc....
i think good picture for a self made towfish and lot of guy ave certainly same in this forum
if you look the cost, 898 at 2000 €, cable if you use ethernet 100 € and 20€ for towfish after ddepht 300€ and thats all
i think it's good solution

[abraquelebout]

i forget motobike

[plastikboot]

Hi Gery,

I started my sidescan career with the first Humminbird SI unit - I switched to a Yellowfin 2 years later because of the limited depth capabilities of the transom mounted transducers. The Yellowfin is good for greater depths but bad compared to the resolution of the Humminbird. The biggest advantage of a good fish is that you get more soundenergy into the water/ping and therefor get stronger returns in longer distances.
Last year I bought myself a Starfish 990 - mainly because I want to use it in SAR and I needed really good resolution. The depth capabilities were limited with the 20m cable at first but with I few changes I made the Starfish go down to 100m.
On my last drowning search I had the possibility to use all 3 sidescans on the same echo - Starfish, Yellowfin and Humminbird 1197 with fish. The drowning was clearly visible with all 3 of them but with some differences: the Starfish showed a drowning and it couldn't be misinterpreted, the Yellowfin gave a very strong return but not as clear, the Humminbird had the weakest return but with more details as the Yellowfin.

I would go with the Starfish when there is a lot of different targets/debris in the field because you get the highest resolution. If you need to go deeper than 100m you can take a Yellowfin or the Marinesonic (which is 3times the price of the Yellowfin). The most cost effective is still the Humminbird with a self made fish.

In the end I can nail it down to a simple thing: you can find almost anything with ANY sidescan - you just need one in the first place! Yeah and it might take a little longer....

Happy new year

Christian

[sonar2000]

Plastic....sonar for use in search and recovery is very much dependent on the situation and environment.
In SAR there is not a one unit thaty fits all needs. Every sonar type has it good points and its not so good points. The points determine the usefulness of the unit in play at the particular time.
It is also the operator who determines the usefulness of any given unit. The devices will power up right out of the box but setting up and using with knowledge only comes with experience thru usage.
SAR is demanding on the presence or absence of a target which represents the item of interest.
To run a sonar scan and say there is no target there and then to have the target float thereafter does not do anything for the family or requester of the scan search.
A sonar user has to come away from a mission knowing that they have used appropriate devices that will display the target they are looking for.....and to locate the target or say with a very high degree of experience that the target is not in the area.
Search and sonar are completely different from mapping or fishing.
Budgets for SAR teams often do not allow for high end units and as I said every unit has good and bad points so having a high end does make it the best.
It is the operator who knows what the unit is capable of and once reaching the limits knows when to call for the more capable device and not overlook the important object.
HB makes a good device, Lowrance makes a good device, Garmin makes a good device, MST, and other highend devices make good devices, sector scan has its capabilities,  but each has a place for which it is effective.
Again for SAR we are there to find that which is missing regardless of who the device/user is..or to be able to say with 99% accuracy the target is not within the search area.
So we, the SAR user, must know our units distinct capabilities and also when to call for addition help.
Chuck

[GM]

Hello abraquelebout, Hello Christian and Hello Chuck,

Many thanks for your nice answers and commentaries.

@abraquelebout: Really nice pictures abraquelebout!! I really enjoyed them, so you got those just with yellowfin and 898? really nice, it's a good price the whole 898 package you mentioned. I tried before wizz but I think there are better software out there, never tried dr depth but I've seen some images in internet, and some videos also I think, but never a mosaic made with dr depth. I made a couple of times mosaics with HypackMax, I have to admit that the output resolution was really nice, and better the size. Just to compare, the same geotiff output at the same resolution (something like 10cmx10cm of 30km2 area) was 1 GB from wizz and 200 MB from Hypack, and the latter was much better about the overlapping process, really amazing. The data processing was a bit stupid in Hypack because the data werent acquired with it, but the output was really nice. I never heard about deepviewer and humviewer, I will search in the net.

@ Thank you Christian, you did a very great point about my question, it sounds very nice the Starfish system, how much could a Starfish 990F cost? I found another SSS manufacturer, Fisher Side Scan Sonar, have you used? thanks also for the price estimates between different systems. Just to tell you, I really enjoyed your PS "Aquatically yours" lol, really nice dude!!

@ Thank Chuck for your commentaries.

Happy New Year guys, you are really helpful.

[abraquelebout]

for the picture i just use a 898, deepviewer and 60 m cable self made towfish with hum hbsi ducer
in sar i think a high resolution system may be use.
happynew year and lot of scan an project

[Rüdiger]

Hi Gery

Before I bought my HB898, I was also informed about other sonars. With its prices would be a starfish 452F http://www.starfishsonar.com/products/starfish450.htm have been considered, but the fact that HB is working with two frequencies has been the rash and it was right.
I use DrDepth for the sidescan mosaic, the only software with live function via Ethernet and I am very satisfied.

mvh
Rüdiger

[GM]

Thanks abraquelebout and Rüdiger for your nice answers, just some thoughts:

@abraquelebout: I've read about the HB898, sounds like a very useful tool among many sss devices, 60 m is quite a lot I think, and you also used the towfish transducer at around 60 m water depth? the 898 system is composed on both the recorder/screen interface and the transducer right?
@Rüdiger: so your recommendation, thinking on 25k to 30k, is the starfish452F right? I couldn't enter to the link you sent me, it asks for a username and password, but on internet found this, http://www.starfishsonar.com/products/starfish452.htm, I think it's the system you were talking about. So, 898HB also uses 2 frequencies, are these 300 Hz and 600 Hz?? or higher or lower? I normally work on coastal areas in order to map targets and seafloor features such as debris flows, sand waves, etc, but sar is also one of my tasks especially in rivers, I'm thinking that perhaps the HB898 could the system , but will keep searching a bit more, because sometimes getting 100 m could be useful, but 60 or 80 m is good enough. Dr Depth so, that's very good to know, how about the support about input/output files?

Thank you again guys for your really nice support, I really enjoy this forum, keep the great work up!!

Cheers,

Gery

[Rüdiger]

Hello Gery

Here again is the link to starfish [urlhttp://www.starfishsonar.com/index.htm][/url]
Humminbird is working with 455 kHz and 800 kHz in the SI mode.
I think, a HB with homemade Towfish there in this price range is no real alternative.

mvh
Rüdiger

[Rickard]

May I add the 898 can use 262 kHz also. Select Sidescan in the Transducer select menu (Hi-Def Sidescan is default in this unit). But one needs the XHS 9 SI 160 T transducer for full functionality.
262 kHz can be very useful in situations with low signal level och high noise level, like when using a long cable plus large distance to the targets.
Rickard

[sonar2000]

For SAR purposes the shallow depths will be fine for HB, for larger areas or deeper depth I would always go with a 900 hkz frequency or a 1200 hkz with a smaller beam width.
As I pposted earlier each has it good and each has its limits.
For SAR you should use the tool that will produce the results..

Chuck

[abraquelebout]

hi rickard
do you think that  XHS 9 HDSI 180 T
must work in 262, 455, and 800 khz ??
i don't test it but if it work whe can take more range in 262 khz

[Rüdiger]

Hi Felix


 Either 455 / 800 with XHS9HDSDI180T transducer or 262 with  XHS9SI160T transducer.

mvh
Rüdiger