Author Topic: Autochart Pro and 898C  (Read 3937 times)

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Offline User-888

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Autochart Pro and 898C
« on: July 10, 2015, 08:50:22 PM »
Hi I just want to confirm that the Autochart software will work with my 898C. May be the better question is that if my 898c will save the proper data for the Autochart software and also it will work with the map that the Autochart software generate and saved on the Zeroline card.

That's how I understand the Autochart work, please correct me if I'm wrong.

Thanks!!



« Last Edit: July 11, 2015, 08:45:19 PM by User-888 »


Offline tambrose76

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Re: Autochart Pro and 898C
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2016, 02:38:49 PM »
AUTOCHART NOTES AND QUESTIONS, NEW BUYER   
Researching, wanting, pausing to get AutoChart.

Questions:
1.   Is there a mandate that all Legacy equipment have THE latest software update installed?  My 898HD is back one version, could find no model/software version/AC cross list. I have to have software version 6.85 or greater?
2.   When is the projected next version of AutoChart due out?  Seems there has been a lot of chatter about terrible documentation, incomplete procedures on HB’s part.  Note the fix to be the forum at http://forums.sideimagingsoft.com/index.php?topic=8122.0
3.   I use my 898HD SI quite well, and record many things with great luck in HummViewer, HummPC, EasyGPS, etc. My unit is supposed to have 3D Chart View and I would love to think that my AutoChart work would reveal 3D imaging on my 898HD screen.  Bet no such thing exists; refer next.  Too little information found on SI mosaic and how to maximize its potential; appears I do NOT have to map in SI mode, using any screen view I want while mapping, as long as the 200kHz is turned on.
4.   The AutoChart manual speaks about using the 200kHz down beam data and track logging.  Does that mean that I need to run only the 200kHz beam?  I see no list of SET THIS UP FIRST, then RECORD instructions.
5.   Noting many chatters about map detail versus track logging and 5000/5000 map creation settings, is there not a ONE SHOT list of how to make the most detailed map possible?  Is a 20mph logging better than a 3mph logging if both transducers see the bottom clearly?
6.   First I see that I will record DAT, IDX, and SON files—seen them before.  So I get this new SD Zeroline card but can us any SD card not over 32Gb; but wait, now put certain cards in just the correct slot first or second, and then on must be the Zeroline;  the old HT files and new ACD  files don’t convert, eeks. Seems a write and read speed of the SD card will matter during track logging but the SD card speed (min/optimum/max) is undeclared. I bet my camera Ultra 40Gb speed card with 16GB data bin is too much but should work right. Either put the new map on the Zeroline card, else die and never see it on any HB unit, right?
7.   Can I make maps in AutoChart by importing my old DAT, IDX, and SON files that never touched the Zeroline card?  Will I only see the newly created map by feeding the 898HD with the Zeroline card? And, never format or delete a single file already in place on the Zeroline card, right? My old HT files can be imported and used as long as they were produced by a 200kHz transducer selection but what happens if my old files were not mapped on that frequency?
8.   Must be sure to go into the 898HD menu to set AC in two different places, though I have never seen that option before; is that because the new map has a file extension that stimulates the menu?  If/Then why not auto change the AC settings?
9.   Zeroing the chart appears impossible via importing any other resource such as GoogleEarth.  Plus, if my external GPS antenna location distance from the transducer is not known to the foot, I will always may in an error of that amount in the headed direction.  How do I set my unit up to account for antenna location error if it is not directly over the [9ft aft] transducer?  GPS accuracy http://www.maps-gps-info.com/gps-accuracy.html must fit in somewhere if my error data shows [12 or i.e. 37] feet. My new map will have a constant skew based on THAT error, atop my un-noted antenna location error.  The actual accuracy of AutoChart equals at least the GPS error, which may be changing itself; no mention found of verifying antenna accuracy.
10.   Bottom hardness and best SI seem to come in the PRO version, more money.  Then there appears to be some glitch way to get AutoChart to create the hardness data to show up; is this going to be some other menu selection yet un-named or is there a prescribed way to get a great map, max detail, harness data in all palette views?
11.   I have a LakeMaster 6.0 chip installed but do I also have to have it to run my newly made AutoChart map?  Let’s see, LakeMaster in one slot, Zeroline in the other, and I want to record snapshots and new tracks and …. The data is headed to either chip where nodda files should be erased. I have seen nothing on the Internet about using the typical LakeMaster features to color various water depths, though references are made to about six or seven LM features retained to apply toward the new AC map.
12.   Local copies, regional maps, new folder names and pathways, be sure files move and stay with the new map and old chip, yikers…. What a mess, and I am computer savvy.
13.   Making a new map must consider cone angle of the transducer, else the new map will miss necessary data.  200kHz at 10ft of water versus 100ft of water must mean that more data for mapping in the latter.  This should equate to a grid chart that uses depth to determine the next pathway for mapping, sort of like the casting rings or trolling grid lines; why not MAPPING grid lines or some advised trolling grid line setup?  In theory, the best map with the most detail can only be made by driving over every square inch of bottom directly under the transducer; there must be a general recipe and some point of wasted time mapping with too little data uptake.  Looks like data editing will be a nightmare (Manual pg 18); best to re-map the area entirely and merge the data to updates one’s own map, esp. during a better GPS lock?
14.   Latency and X and Y; there appears to be a way of zeroing the transducer on the boat but also a way that AutoChart can take into account antenna location versus the transducer but only LIVE NMEA connection to a PC with AutoChart running can achieve timing data that makes a solid map. Looks like mapping should be no more than 5m (16.4 ft) per swipe; how am I going to keep that in check?  By a scaled show trackline setting while underway?

Please convince me that this much-needed tool is User-friendly and ready for market.  Money still in pocket until a better Manual and series of HB videos can accurately tell me:   1) how to set up my unit and zero it before mapping, 2) explanations and simplification of file names, folder generation, data migration, are described succinctly, and 3) SI, DI, 3D depictions with GPS accuracy considerations are told.
"Some men see things as they are and say why.
I dream things that never were and say why not." --George Bernard Shaw

Offline CamoHunter

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Re: Autochart Pro and 898C
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2016, 03:52:10 PM »
1.   Is there a mandate that all Legacy equipment have THE latest software update installed?  My 898HD is back one version, could find no model/software version/AC cross list. I have to have software version 6.85 or greater?

There is no mandate that you update software on any unit.  BUT, if you want your 898c HD to be able to READ your ZeroLines SD card, and the map you produce in AutoChart, you will need to update your software.  At the time the 898c HD was released, AutoChart wasn't around yet, and therefore the software doesn't read AutoChart SD cards without a software update.

2.   When is the projected next version of AutoChart due out?  Seems there has been a lot of chatter about terrible documentation, incomplete procedures on HB’s part.  Note the fix to be the forum at http://forums.sideimagingsoft.com/index.php?topic=8122.0

No idea if or when there will be a new version of AutoChart.  The forum that you linked to, is a collection of "How To Tutorials" that I personally created for my use and to help others.  It also includes AutoChart Manuals that were published by Humminbird, that were just difficult to locate, so I included them to have them all in one place.

3.   I use my 898HD SI quite well, and record many things with great luck in HummViewer, HummPC, EasyGPS, etc. My unit is supposed to have 3D Chart View and I would love to think that my AutoChart work would reveal 3D imaging on my 898HD screen.  Bet no such thing exists; refer next.  Too little information found on SI mosaic and how to maximize its potential; appears I do NOT have to map in SI mode, using any screen view I want while mapping, as long as the 200kHz is turned on.

A couple of things here.  You cannot view 3D mapping on your 898c HD screen.  When they mention "3D Chart View", they mention it along with other screen views such as "Big Digits View", "Sonar View", "GPS/Sonar Combo View", "Side Imaging View", etc.  The "3D Chart View" is actually the "Birds Eye View" screen where it lays down the GPS map as a different perspective with nearby waypoints appearing close, and farther away waypoints appearing farther out on the horizon.  Hope that makes sense.
You cannot view your lake map in 3D on your depthfinder.  Only in AutoChart on your computer.
The second part of your question has to do with Side Imaging and creating Side Imaging Mosaic.  To create a Side Imaging Mosaic in AutoChart, you do indeed have to create sonar recordings with a Side Imaging Transducer on.  What you read about only needing 200khz transducer, is creating a depth map.  To create a depth map, it only records Lat, Long, Depth for each data point, and it gets the depth from the depth reading on your depthfinder, which is from your 200khz transducer reading.

4.   The AutoChart manual speaks about using the 200kHz down beam data and track logging.  Does that mean that I need to run only the 200kHz beam?  I see no list of SET THIS UP FIRST, then RECORD instructions.

As I just mentioned, your track log contains a LOT of data points.  Each data point includes a Lat, Long, and Depth.  The depth number comes from the 200kHz transducer.  That doesn't mean that is the only beam you can run.  You can have 83khz, 200khz, and side imaging all on at the same time.

5.   Noting many chatters about map detail versus track logging and 5000/5000 map creation settings, is there not a ONE SHOT list of how to make the most detailed map possible?  Is a 20mph logging better than a 3mph logging if both transducers see the bottom clearly?

Hopefully it makes sense to you that a more accurate map would have MORE data points, CLOSER together.  Your depthfinder plots a data point every 1 second.  Therefore, the faster you go, the farther apart those data points become.  Consequently, the slower you go, the closer those data points will be, which will create a more detailed depth map.  5000 x 5000 has to do with the map box, and has nothing to do with this topic.

Offline CamoHunter

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Re: Autochart Pro and 898C
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2016, 04:34:56 PM »
6.   First I see that I will record DAT, IDX, and SON files—seen them before.  So I get this new SD Zeroline card but can us any SD card not over 32Gb; but wait, now put certain cards in just the correct slot first or second, and then on must be the Zeroline;  the old HT files and new ACD  files don’t convert, eeks. Seems a write and read speed of the SD card will matter during track logging but the SD card speed (min/optimum/max) is undeclared. I bet my camera Ultra 40Gb speed card with 16GB data bin is too much but should work right. Either put the new map on the Zeroline card, else die and never see it on any HB unit, right?

You can use ANY SD card to make sonar recordings, or export Humminbird tracks onto.  You do not need to make those on a ZeroLines SD card.  Yes, you might want an SD card with a little higher read/write speed when making sonar recordings on your depthfinder.  Basically, you just need an SD card to transport your sonar recordings and Humminbird tracks onto your computer, where you'll use AutoChart to process the data into a map, then you'll send that map to your ZeroLines SD card on your computer within the AutoChart program.

7.   Can I make maps in AutoChart by importing my old DAT, IDX, and SON files that never touched the Zeroline card?  Will I only see the newly created map by feeding the 898HD with the Zeroline card? And, never format or delete a single file already in place on the Zeroline card, right? My old HT files can be imported and used as long as they were produced by a 200kHz transducer selection but what happens if my old files were not mapped on that frequency?

Yes, when I first bought AutoChart, I imported quite a few .ht Humminbird tracks and sonar recordings that I made in years before AutoChart was available.  They imported into AutoChart just fine.  As long as your old .ht track files have depth readings, they will import into AutoChart, where you can then create a depth map and put that depth map on your ZeroLines SD card.
*To make sure your old .ht track files have depths, you can open them in HumminbirdPC, and look at the track, and look in the depth column to see if it has depth numbers or just 0.0ft.
8.   Must be sure to go into the 898HD menu to set AC in two different places, though I have never seen that option before; is that because the new map has a file extension that stimulates the menu?  If/Then why not auto change the AC settings?

You need to update the software on your 898c HD for the ZeroLines SD card to work.  Then, yes, when you put the zerolines sd card into the unit, it will recognize the card and you'll need to select whether you want to see the generic zerolines base map, or your custom 'AC' depth map.
9.   Zeroing the chart appears impossible via importing any other resource such as GoogleEarth.  Plus, if my external GPS antenna location distance from the transducer is not known to the foot, I will always may in an error of that amount in the headed direction.  How do I set my unit up to account for antenna location error if it is not directly over the [9ft aft] transducer?  GPS accuracy http://www.maps-gps-info.com/gps-accuracy.html must fit in somewhere if my error data shows [12 or i.e. 37] feet. My new map will have a constant skew based on THAT error, atop my un-noted antenna location error.  The actual accuracy of AutoChart equals at least the GPS error, which may be changing itself; no mention found of verifying antenna accuracy.

With a GPS antenna 9ft away from a transducer, you're automatically introducing 9ft + of mapping error right off the bat.  If you're wanting as accurate of a map as possible, you'll want an external GPS antenna mounted as closely as practical to your source for the depth reading (transducer). 
There might be an option to adjust GPS offset, but I wouldn't trust it.  It would depend on which direction you're driving the boat and the direction your gps reading is from your transducer.  But, if you're collecting depth readings while fishing, or drifting for walleyes for instance, direction of travel wouldn't be correct even. 
Therefore, best solution would be a precision gps receiver placed close to the transducer, or for you to accept the fact your map will still be good, but not perfect, because your gps was 9ft away from your depth reading in any direction.

10.   Bottom hardness and best SI seem to come in the PRO version, more money.  Then there appears to be some glitch way to get AutoChart to create the hardness data to show up; is this going to be some other menu selection yet un-named or is there a prescribed way to get a great map, max detail, harness data in all palette views?

I don't know what you're asking here.  AutoChart Basic allows you to create depth maps.  AutoChart Pro allows you to create depth maps, create bottom hardness layer, and create side imaging mosaic. 
The bottom hardness map is ONLY visible on your computer.  Depth map and Side Imaging Mosaic can be loaded to your ZeroLines sd card and viewed on your depthfinder.
11.   I have a LakeMaster 6.0 chip installed but do I also have to have it to run my newly made AutoChart map?

No.  Your ZeroLines SD card acts as your lakemaster map.  You do not need a lakemaster map to view maps that you create in AutoChart.

Let’s see, LakeMaster in one slot, Zeroline in the other, and I want to record snapshots and new tracks and …. The data is headed to either chip where nodda files should be erased.

You could certainly have a Lakemaster card in one slot, and the ZeroLines SD card in the other slot, if you so choose.  Make sure the Lakemaster SD card is 'locked' so that sonar recordings are saved to the ZeroLines SD card instead of the Lakemaster card. 
Also, an SD card is not required to save .ht track files.  Those save to the internal memory of the depthfinder, until you decide to export them.  At that time, you can place an SD card in your unit, and choose which track files you want to export to the SD card.
I have seen nothing on the Internet about using the typical LakeMaster features to color various water depths, though references are made to about six or seven LM features retained to apply toward the new AC map.

The custom map that you create in the AutoChart program, on your ZeroLines SD card, acts just like a Lakemater map.  Meaning, you can select a depth range to color, shallow water highlight, depth offset, etc.  I've used them all with custom maps that I've created.
12.   Local copies, regional maps, new folder names and pathways, be sure files move and stay with the new map and old chip, yikers…. What a mess, and I am computer savvy.

What's your question?

13.   Making a new map must consider cone angle of the transducer, else the new map will miss necessary data.  200kHz at 10ft of water versus 100ft of water must mean that more data for mapping in the latter.  This should equate to a grid chart that uses depth to determine the next pathway for mapping, sort of like the casting rings or trolling grid lines; why not MAPPING grid lines or some advised trolling grid line setup?  In theory, the best map with the most detail can only be made by driving over every square inch of bottom directly under the transducer; there must be a general recipe and some point of wasted time mapping with too little data uptake.  Looks like data editing will be a nightmare (Manual pg 18); best to re-map the area entirely and merge the data to updates one’s own map, esp. during a better GPS lock?

Again, what's your question?  A simple understanding of sonar and how it reads depth, should tell you that you will have a more accurate depth map in shallower water.  The deeper you try to map, the more likelihood of other errors (transducer angle is tilted, transducer cone hits shallow side of dropoff, etc).  Sorry my answers are getting shorter, I'm starting to get exhausted answering your questions.
14.   Latency and X and Y; there appears to be a way of zeroing the transducer on the boat but also a way that AutoChart can take into account antenna location versus the transducer but only LIVE NMEA connection to a PC with AutoChart running can achieve timing data that makes a solid map. Looks like mapping should be no more than 5m (16.4 ft) per swipe; how am I going to keep that in check?  By a scaled show trackline setting while underway?

You're getting far to hung up on this part.  Nothing HAS to be EXACT, and you're still going to get very good maps produced. 

Please convince me that this much-needed tool is User-friendly and ready for market.  Money still in pocket until a better Manual and series of HB videos can accurately tell me:   1) how to set up my unit and zero it before mapping, 2) explanations and simplification of file names, folder generation, data migration, are described succinctly, and 3) SI, DI, 3D depictions with GPS accuracy considerations are told.

For all the questions you asked, and your obvious worries, I'm going to recommend that you do not buy AutoChart.  In my opinion, I think you'll get confused and frustrated. 

You might be better served by Navionics Sonar Charts, where you just send them your sonar logs, let them do all the work processing, and download their map updates from time to time.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2016, 04:36:26 PM by CamoHunter »


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