Topic: 1199 burning up transducers? Is this possible?

[Whistler]

I'm about to replace the 2d shoot thru hull transducer for the second time in 2 years.  The original trasducer lasted several years without issue.  That is until I moved the 1198 that was running it to the bow and replaced the 1198 with a new 1199.  Since doing that the 2d transducer has failed twice.

I have also sent the 1199 back to humminbird reporting the issue but they said it tested out fine.

Is it possible that the 1199 is burning up the 2d transducer?  Is there any way I could test to determine if that may be the case?

I do have a y cable splitting the 2d and SI.  Is it possible that the y cable could be causing this?

Could corrosion in the Y cable cause an impedance problem that could result in the transducer burning up?

[sonarbear]

How exactly do the ducers fail?

[RonnieB]

Lots rumblings on this subject over at this sight.
http://www.walleyecentral.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-146394.html

"Burning up" ?  Please define. Melted, stopped working, image distortion, no bottom, in-accurate?
External or in hull transducer?

http://www.vexilar.com/blog/2014/08/28/solving-sonar-interference

1st thing I would check is the connector pins. I would then pull transducer wiring out of the boat and check it in a bucket of water. I would then disconnect it and tear transducer apart. (Don't expect to reuse it) See iif there has been any water intrusion, broken or loose pieces, Ohm each wire. If you are electric savvy, you could test signal from the unit and to the transducer.

I'm no expert, but I do not think the crystals wear out in a short time. Transducer may have a electronic circuit that has failed. Figuring out that failure cause is way over my head.

A lesson I learned the hard way; do not put dielectric grease on electrical contacts. It is NOT conductive. I've seen it recommended after you make the connections. But as you wiggle wires around it will work its way between connections and create resistance.

Good luck, keep us posted

[Whistler]

When I say fail, I mean that its sensitivity seems to get progressively worse over time until it can no longer find the bottom using clear mode and normal sensitivity at 10.  I can find the bottom now by changing to max mode and bumping up the sensitivity.  This will work for a while but eventually it get bad enough that even that won't work and I won't be able to find the bottom at all.

BTW - I'm fishing relatively shallow southern US lakes.

When I swapped the transducers the last time, I did an ear test with the old transducer and the new.  It was clear to me that the new transducer had a much louder 'click' than the old.  And of course, once the new transducer was installed the problem was 'fixed' well at least for about a year anyway.

[RonnieB]

The pinging frequency is suppose to be above what we can hear. (0 Hz to roughly 20 kHz) The transducer pings at such a high speed that would it not be construed as a hum rather as a click? 50 Khz = 50,000 hz = 50,000 cycles per sec. But the khz may be a intermittent pulse to allow for the return to be received?

Maybe there is a relay switch that is clicking or a capacitor unloading or a maybe it is the generated pulse. I am curious so I will go by mechanic shop and see if I can get an old one to tear into.

http://www.thehulltruth.com/marine-electronics-forum/110498-clicking-noise-my-transducer.html#b

[rnvinc]

AIRMAR manufactures xducers ...and only xducers ... Their xducers can cost in the $1K range and up ...

HB manufactures xducers ...and a lot of other products ... The XP 9 20 is $90 ...

I would think there have to be some quality control differences ...

Rickie

[Gimp]

Ronnie,

Not only can you hear them click, if you put your hand on them you can feel them clicking away (pulsing). It is like a sharp snapping to the palm of your hand. Not nearly as bad as a tattoo needle, but very noticeable.

[sonarbear]

A progressive loss of sensitivity could be due to a depoling of the material. That can happen with overpower or too high operating temperature. I would send the transducers in! If the click on a new is indeed much stronger, it sounds much like depoling. This click is due to the mechanical deformations during piezo vibration and common to every transducer. In principle there is also no reason why a 1000$ unit would be more sturdy then a 100$ unit. That's purely determined by material, and pure material adds little to transducer cost. Expensive might even fail earlier due to more sensitive material.

[Whistler]

I wondered about overpowering.  I've no idea how to safely test that on my own.  Since I've already sent the head unit back to Humminbird once before, and they said they didn't find any problems, do you have any suggestions on how I might test that on my own?  I have another unit (1198) that I could use as a baseline and I have a meter.  I'm just not sure how to test for a problem?

Would it be as simple as measuring the resistance/impedance of the transducer, then measuring the output voltage for the sonar on the 1199 then using Ohms law, calculate the power being delivered by the unit?  Then do the same for the 1198 and comparing the two?

Also, I've gone ahead and ordered a new sonar puck.  Is there a way for me to test the old puck against the new puck using a meter?  Will it just be an impedance check?

[sonarbear]

I don't think there is a way to home-test. I'd send the transducer back, plus the head. Not just the head. The problem may be sitting in the ducer.

[RonnieB]

Good stuff guys, learning something new all the time. I will probably feel it before I hear it.
Will the clicking increase in speed or intensity as kHz is increased?  I've had my hands on my SI and 2D many times in the water and I've never felt it. But I wasn't paying attention for it either.  Out of curiosity I've got to go feel it and listen to it. Can you hear/ feel it in water?
And will it hurt running transducer out of water?

I had a lot of issues with mine. Thought I wasted a lot of money. But I reran wiring, new connectors, dedicated battery for electronics, updated Onix to Chirp and it made a world of difference.

Thanks for sharing info.

[sonarbear]

The clicking will only increase with power. It's not the actual sonar frequency, as this is inaudible. It's just an artifact from the rapid stress put on the plastics of the transducer. I think it will be hard to attribute any change in environment variables to the clicking, except power under identical conditions.
It might not even come from the sidescan. It might just be the 2D piezo that's doing it.
And that leads to an intersting question: is the loss of sensitivity in all channels? 2D and Sidescan?

[Whistler]

The loss of power is only in 2D.  The side scan is never affected.  There is a Y cable in the mix here as I'm splitting the sonar and side scan.  I'm going to go ahead and replace the Y cable as well as I've seen some rust on its shielding.  The connectors themselves look fine, but figured I'd change it to be safe.

If the Y cable were bad, could increased impedance introduced by that cable cause this problem?

[sonarbear]

It could. As could water that creates a short circuit or degrades the transducer and connections.