Author Topic: 598ciHDsi + XNT9 QB90 T.ransducer  (Read 2423 times)

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Offline Swann

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598ciHDsi + XNT9 QB90 T.ransducer
« on: February 15, 2022, 05:26:38 AM »
Hello from just North of the border ;)
Now I know my Unitz a tad old & my question is even older than the Unit itself But my question is as follows:
"IF" I was able 2get my hands on the Transducer (XNT9 QB90 T), would my 598ciHDsi be able 2 apply the QuadraBeamPlus Function OR is this yet another function that separates the 798 from the 598 & has Any1 ever actually tried this on the water? Cheers ;)


Offline danlaboucane

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Re: 598ciHDsi + XNT9 QB90 T.ransducer
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2022, 07:16:55 AM »
I had a 798HD quadrabeam but would be surprised the 598 could read the four beams if it is not specified it can . maybe check at Hummingbird.com the transducer compatibility chart to see if it does .

Offline Swann

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Re: 598ciHDsi + XNT9 QB90 T.ransducer
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2022, 07:15:42 PM »
Unfortunately, it seems my 598ci is a bit too old for the H-B website & perhaps of no real concern unless it had the ability to Network like the 798ci... which still seems to garner at least a little respect in lieu of all the newer models.
In Any Event, Thank You for your input But I was kinda hoping to hear from someone that "physically attempted this" as P.97 of the 598ci Manual states that a Sub-Menu will appear when the Unit detects a Transducer ... similarly to P.101 of the 798ci Manual and yet this little Sub-Menu is simply "Non-Existent" - even when I connect my XNT9 SI 180T and Nor when i connect an XNT9 20T. I even tried an XNT9 28T in a futile attempt to see if this "Sub-Menu" would magically appear somehow.
In Any Event, I need Not confuse the issue with more questions on top of questions b/c there's definitely more where that came from & especially when it comes to this Manual that I downloaded from H-B.com before even making the purchase.
At this point, I would simply wish to know "IF Anyone out there in H-B land has ever physically tried to Connect an XNT9 QB90 Transducer to a 598ciHDsi and what their findings were? (If Any at all)"
Thank You Kindly Y'All... Cheers ;)
« Last Edit: February 15, 2022, 07:22:43 PM by Swann »

Offline rnvinc

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Re: 598ciHDsi + XNT9 QB90 T.ransducer
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2022, 11:21:03 PM »
HB core units have never had the capability to “auto detect” any xducer connected. There is no “Auto Detect” wire circuit in the xducer cable to complete this task  ... (only ONIX, SOLIX, and APEX have this dedicated wire circuit)  ...

Therefore, the HB core units incorporate a “Connected Transducer” selection Menu under the Sonar tab showing the various HB transducers that can be used with that certain series or model unit  ... Basically the user manually selects (in this “Connected Transducer” Menu) which xducer the user physically attached to the unit = so the unit can transmit the correct frequency signals, thru the correct cable wires, to the correct piezoes in the attached xducer  ...

Meaning, if a certain HB core unit does not list a certain HB xducer in the “Connected Transducer” selection Menu under the Sonar tab = that certain xducer is not compatible with that certain HB core unit  ... and also, if there is no “Connected Transducer” Menu under the Sonar tab at all = the stock xducer is the only compatible xducer with that unit model  ...

Note here : some newer software versions for certain model units added “Connected Transducer” selections  ... verify your unit has the latest software  ...

Now  .. that would be HB’s official statement  ...

Now conversely also - I’ve never been employed by HB and I’ve never been reluctant to attach incompatible xducers to HB core units and experiment  ... look at my signature at the left (or ask any member here that goes back in this forum as long as I do)  ...

Big Big BIG disclaimer here — connecting an incompatible xducer to any HB unit has the potential of bricking the HB unit  ... so experiment at your own risk  ...

Rickie
« Last Edit: February 16, 2022, 01:49:51 AM by rnvinc »

Offline rnvinc

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Re: 598ciHDsi + XNT9 QB90 T.ransducer
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2022, 12:34:37 AM »
So here is my prediction of results from attaching a Quadrabeam xducer to the 598ci SI  ...::

1. a. 598 SI transmits 83kHz/200kHz 2d  ...
    b. Quadrabeam 2d piezo is tuned to 83kHz/200kHz  ...
    c. 2d will probably give useable results  ...

2. a. 598 SI transmits 455kHz SI
    b. Quadrabeam “side pointing piezoes” are tuned to 455kHz  ...
    c. 598 SI at 455kHz SI probably will give results = BUT  ...
——
——
*The first item to note is that the “Connected Transducer” selection of “Quadrabeam” would add processing for echos received from the Quadrabeam xducer “side pointing” piezoes, and also add the Quadrabeam display view in the view rotation  ... it looks like this in a combo view with 2d  ...



*The second item to note is that 598 SI does not have a “Quadrabeam” selection in the “Connected Transducer” Menu - to install a Quadrabeam display view (seen above) into the view rotation  ... therefore any echo targets in the 455kHz “side pointing” piezo coverage of the Quadrabeam xducer would be plotted into the normal 598 SI displayed image  ... 

*The third item to note is the 598 SI does indeed transmit 455kHz SI (which the Quadrabeam is tuned to) = but the displayed echo targets are not coming from where you think they are in the underwater SI beam coverage  ...

So let’s compare the SI beam coverage of the 598 SI (as displayed into the 598 SI image)  ...
And the “side pointing” beam coverage of the Quadrabeam (which would be displayed into the 598 SI image)  ...

This the beam coverage of the 598 SI 455kHz “side imaging” piezoes  ...


This is the beam coverage of the Quadrabeam 455kHz “side pointing” piezoes  ...


So my conclusion is the Quadrabeam will work on the 598 SI (transmit frequencies match) = but with caveats in the SI  ...

*There will be no actual Quadrabeam display view ..
*Echos received by the Quadrabeam xducer “side pointing” piezo coverage will be plotted into the 598 SI display view  ...
*Those echoes displayed into the 598 SI display view (received from the Quadrabeam “side pointing” piezoes) will not be from where you think those targets are under the boat ...simply because there is  no “Quadrabeam” selection processing capability in the 598 SI  ...

Rickie
« Last Edit: February 16, 2022, 01:54:38 AM by rnvinc »

Offline rnvinc

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Re: 598ciHDsi + XNT9 QB90 T.ransducer
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2022, 12:52:49 AM »
If you find one and experiment please post screenshots and let’s discuss  ...

We all learn from experimenting and discussion  ...

Rickie
« Last Edit: February 16, 2022, 01:21:51 AM by rnvinc »

Offline Swann

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Re: 598ciHDsi + XNT9 QB90 T.ransducer
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2022, 03:03:39 PM »
Rickie,
1-You're a Marine Electronics Monster - LoL ;)
2-You have Nothing to prove to me as I've been seeking out info from the name "rnvinc" for nearly a year now from places like this very forum, BBC-Boards, etc. and can honestly say that I recently joined b/c of you so please believe me when I tell you that No Introduction is needed b/c The Honor is Truly Mine.
3-I take it "Bricking" means the unit gets stuck in some kind of loop and one inadvertently ends up finding themselves up S#%Tz Creek (without a paddle) and that i risked doing so when connecting my XNT9 28T transducer to my 598ciHDsi in a futile attempt to find something that simply does not exist... So in this case, seeing as the XNT9 28T emits 200/455khz Dual Frequencies that my unit is capable of interpreting But unfortunately from All The Wrong Places is what could have caused me to screw it up - royally? Wow - I Really Hope Not?
4-I updated to the latest Software v.7.300 as per H-B Website within a few short weeks of arrival after purchase just a few months ago... it was a Deal I simply could not refuse.
5-At the time, I was making as many comparisons as I could between the 798ci and 598ci by way of downloading each manual from the H-B Website in order to compare the differences between the two... I also found it hard to believe that H-B would even bother to offer S.I on those 398ci Units and why they even bothered is beyond me But one thing I could not have prepared for was the fact that the UNI-Map only covers the Continental US when it specifically uses the term "North America" to apply to Domestic Units and then Europe, New Zealand and Australia for "International Units"... So now, my unit shows my backyard to be about as plain as a piece of toast But like I said before, I shouldn't complain for the price I paid and at this point would simply hope to maximize its uses and hence my query about the potential for Quadra Beam Plus.
Thank You for that incredibly thorough response My Friend and could you please explain the symptoms of "Bricking" or what it means when your Unit is "Bricked" ?
Thanks Again. Cheers Mate :)
« Last Edit: February 16, 2022, 06:09:56 PM by Swann »

Offline rnvinc

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Re: 598ciHDsi + XNT9 QB90 T.ransducer
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2022, 07:52:06 PM »
Usually - bricking a unit makes it totally inoperable and only HB could fix it  ...

Unfortunately older units get dropped off the service list the older they get  ...
https://humminbird-help.johnsonoutdoors.com/hc/en-us/articles/4412767762839-Current-Repair-Fees

Rickie

Offline rnvinc

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Re: 598ciHDsi + XNT9 QB90 T.ransducer
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2022, 08:07:23 PM »
Here is LakeMaster Find a Lake  ... (Canada is farther down in the list)  ...
https://www.humminbird.com/support/chart-lists

Here are LakeMaster map cards  ...
https://humminbird.johnsonoutdoors.com/mapping/lakemaster?_gl=1*1vfeg3x*_ga*ODU3MjIzMTc4LjE2NDQ4OTkwODM.*_ga_JE4T2LF5XP*MTY0NTA1OTQwNi4yLjEuMTY0NTA1OTkzMi42MA..*_fplc*aENQUGhIdiUyRjZuTnRGOG5wYUY3Um5mRkpnWEVYVFg5YXl3WENHdkpsUFRKNG4xZFUxa0RvWHp1Q201QzVXczdoRzluV25vaHklMkJmc0VveGptaVI2Rk9DTll3SjVOT3g1ZzNVJTJGMnk2Q3JBJTJCRUhJQ3NaQkxEbGhRR0dyTUNtcEElM0QlM0Q.&_ga=2.91983385.2023891189.1645059409-857223178.1644899083

Here is the Navionics web app that shows actual coverage  ...
https://webapp.navionics.com/?lang=en#boating@6&key=oc~_FjgdzO

Rickie



Offline rnvinc

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Re: 598ciHDsi + XNT9 QB90 T.ransducer
« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2022, 08:16:05 PM »
One point you mentioned previously that I forgot to cover  ...

You found ”P.97 of the 598ci Manual states that a Sub-Menu will appear when the Unit detects a Transducer”  ...

If a unit does not have an xducer attached - the unit will function as a Chart plotter only (with no Sonar tab visible in the Main Menu System)  ...

If an xducer is then attached - the Sonar tab will populate in the Main Menu System  ...

This has nothing to do with which model xducer is attached - (leading some to interpret this “populate the Menu” is an xducer “Auto Detect” feature)  ... which it kinda is - but this merely “populates” the Sonar tab in the Main Menu System  ... but doesn’t actually “detect” which model xducer was attached  ... but merely detects “oh look here an xducer” was attached  ... 

Rickie
« Last Edit: February 17, 2022, 01:09:16 AM by rnvinc »

Offline rnvinc

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Re: 598ciHDsi + XNT9 QB90 T.ransducer
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2022, 12:39:45 AM »
Also (but not condoned by HB)  ... you can get slightly better SI images in your 598 SI by connecting a XHS 9 HDSI 180 T xducer in place of the XNT 9 SI 180 T that came stock with the 598 SI  ...

The frequency compatibility is the same, the piezo orientation is the same, but the physically longer SI piezoes in the XHS 9 HDSI 180 T will give somewhat more detailed SI images (by “Sonar science” longer SI piezoes give more detail than shorter SI piezoes)  ...

https://humminbird.johnsonoutdoors.com/accessories/transducers/xhs-9-hdsi-180-t-transom-transducer

Rickie
« Last Edit: February 17, 2022, 01:01:53 AM by rnvinc »

Offline Swann

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Re: 598ciHDsi + XNT9 QB90 T.ransducer
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2022, 12:09:56 AM »
Yes Sir, Thank You (don't know how many times I'll be saying that now that we've met) But Yes, re: the larger piezo elements, that much I did know although I can't really see it being that much of an improvement on a 5" screen and yet I do believe a 5in. 640x640 Square Display 2do a better job (at least in terms of "Split-Screen" scenarios) than even some of today's Helix5 480x800 Rectangular Displays due 2the simple & inherent nature of "geometry & pixel proportion".
Now perhaps the Gen2 version may have improved the display a bit more than than the Gen1 or at least so I've been told anyway & yet this very same source (an Auth HB Service Agent 4the better part of 20yrs) also told me that the Helix5 SI is soon 2B discontinued 4this very reason due2 customers complaining of this visual/proportional difference & then turning back the clock in favor of a 798 (or perhaps even a 598) seeing as they all come stock with the same transducer (XNT9 180SI T) anyway.
Another difference I was told not just regarding image quality when comparing the Stock Transducer to the XHS9 HDSI 180 T is "Speed" and in cases where the Stock Transducer can maintain S.I readings slightly over 15mph, the XHS9 will barely allow most to do even 10mph on the water. This 5 to 9mph difference can be huge 4some & probably the reason why they sell for virtually the same dollar amount(s) on the 2nd hand market... sure people can list items & ask whatever they want But what they actually Re-Sell4 is the thing 2pay Attn 2.
In Any event, I'm sure the aforementioned is already well known to Mr. RNVINC - LoL ;) But I figured 2at least attempt 2do my part here on the Forum... & with that being said, I may as well be thorough, so when I speak of distance/range - I mean in Both senses of the word where not only does 5-10mph equate 2 Physical distance(s) covered on the water, the very nature of Higher Frequency(s) tend to travel less distance under water in order 2interpret returns accurately & unfortunately the 798's (& 598s) are Not designed 2read the 800kHz Frequency yielded by the XHS9 HDSI 180 T & would only be benefitting from the 455kHz frequency improvement(s).
For myself personally, I think I'd rather find what I'm looking for quickly seeing as the average fish on a 5" screen will only B represented by a small pixel or 2 anyway -weather the layout is a 640x640 display or a 480x800 display... so perhaps I should start hunting for an 899ci instead of a 798ci (International Version)? LOL ;)

So here's a question : Upon surfing more fish finder info, I noticed a few times that the 798ciHDsi was being addressed as a 798cXiHDsi on occasion?
Was there an "X" version or is this just a typo & if true, what does this "X" represent anyway? Thanks, Sandro.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2022, 02:07:51 PM by Swann »

Offline rnvinc

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Re: 598ciHDsi + XNT9 QB90 T.ransducer
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2022, 09:35:31 PM »
c = color display
X = international version
i = internal GPS antenna
HD = LED display (earlier models were CCFL displays)  ... 
SI = Side Imaging  ...

Note : there was never a xx8 series that had internal GPS antenna- those units came with an external GPS puck ...

Internal GPS antenna started in the xx9 series  ...

Rickie
« Last Edit: February 18, 2022, 09:38:16 PM by rnvinc »

Offline Swann

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Re: 598ciHDsi + XNT9 QB90 T.ransducer
« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2022, 09:50:16 PM »
So I went 2the HB website just 2confirm that I'm up2date with Software 4my 598ciHDSI at v7.300 and according to the chart listed - I'm up 2date BUT your last msg here caused me 2wonder what the exact naming sequence would look like if my 598ci was an International version and furthermore for that of the 798ci or perhaps even an 899ci as well?
Thus far it seems that there is/was no 598ci International version? Either it was missed on the list or simply did not/does not exist?

https://humminbird-help.johnsonoutdoors.com/hc/en-us/articles/4412684835607-What-is-the-current-version-of-software-available-for-my-unit-

This also led me down another path seeing as HB is offering a Free Base Map Download to New Model Owners (Helix, Solix, Apex, etc.) which I suspect would be something along the lines of a Super-Improved Uni-Map that includes Lake Hydrography and am wondering what would happen if I attempted to download this .zip file and then give my 598ci a chance to read it? Do you think attempting something like this would cause it to "Brick"? Thanks, Sandro.

https://www.humminbird.com/support/software-updates/basemap-for-helix-5-7-8-v-2-010

« Last Edit: February 20, 2022, 11:27:40 PM by Swann »

Offline rnvinc

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Re: 598ciHDsi + XNT9 QB90 T.ransducer
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2022, 11:20:54 PM »
Google searches for Humminbird 598cx do show results  ... but I do not know for sure if these are advertising misnomers  ...

Attempting to load any update to a unit that is not specifically for that unit model will only result in the unit ignoring the attempt  ...

The basemap update is most likely not offered for older core units simply because of lack of processing power  ...

Rickie


Offline Swann

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Re: 598ciHDsi + XNT9 QB90 T.ransducer
« Reply #15 on: February 28, 2022, 07:56:11 PM »
Yep, U were right (again) - Nothing happened... so I was reading something about a feature called "Jigging Mode" that may/may not be available on a 798ciHDsi & perhaps 1 of those things that show up in an "X-Press Menu" under actual use versus Simulation Mode & furthermore, is it possible my 598ciHDsi might possess this feature as well?

Offline rnvinc

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Re: 598ciHDsi + XNT9 QB90 T.ransducer
« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2022, 09:39:10 PM »
Yep, U were right (again) - Nothing happened... so I was reading something about a feature called "Jigging Mode" that may/may not be available on a 798ciHDsi & perhaps 1 of those things that show up in an "X-Press Menu" under actual use versus Simulation Mode & furthermore, is it possible my 598ciHDsi might possess this feature as well?

Back in the early part of the xx8 series HB decided to “prioritize” SI imaging over 2d Sonar  ... HB achieved this “SI prioritization” by changing the ping sequence of the transmitters to favor the SI transmits over the 2d transmits  ... great idea for SI imaging - but it trashed the 2d Sonar  ...

After many complaints, emails, calls from unhappy HB users - HB added a feature in another update called “Jigging Mode” (under the 2d Sonar Xpress Menu).

“Jigging Mode Off” allowed the ping sequence in the latest update that “prioritized” SI imaging  ...

“Jigging Mode On” reverted the ping sequence back to previous ping sequence before the update that “prioritized” SI imaging  ... (jigging being a term that 2d Sonar users use)  ...

If your 598 SI has the latest update - I would think “Jigging Mode” would be available in the 2d Sonar Xpress Menu  ...

Rickie

« Last Edit: February 28, 2022, 09:40:30 PM by rnvinc »


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