Topic: 1198c si & 859C HD DI & I pilot..UH-OH, did I screw up?

[ScottMN]

I have an 1198c si and I ordered an 859C HD DI thinking I could view the DI & SI on the 1198 while running my i-pilot i-link and maps on the 859ci HD DI.

I also ordered a (xtm 9 wide di 20 t) and TS3 transducer switch, thinking I could run it on my trolling motor with the XNT-9-DI-T transducer stern and switch views.

I probably shouldn't confuse it any more but I also ordered a US3 switch and Ethernet cable so I can move the 859 between the helm & bow or switch my DI dual view between units.

I just read some CAN-DO & CAN'T-DO comments and am wondering if I should be canceling what isn't here yet?

HELP!!

[fisherdee]

I just had hooked up an 1198 si, 898 si and I pilot link.
1198 on console, transom mount ducer with a spring back transducershield, gps puck on rear gunnel.
898 on bow.  ducer mounted on trolling motor.  gps puck on bow

had to use the Interlink Network Connection.  So both units and I pilot share Ethernet connections.  Also hooked up the gps to my vhs radio for emergency location. Everything is working fine.  the two units share way-points etc.  but not maps.  You need a map card for each unit.

[ScottMN]

From what I've heard Si & SI share most anything but DI & SI don't play well together. Maybe I'm overly overwhelmed! But I'm thinking more computer networking then Humminbird program networking. It may be more complicated then I think when trying to combine anything and everything like I do on computer networks. $700.00 on a new 859c HD Di and $700.00 on cables, switches, transducers etc. so I can gadget out my 101 Terrova Ilink and 1198c si is beginning to look costly if I can't make it work the way I want.
Thanks for your reply Fisherdee!

[ScottMN]

WHEW!!! Thanks to Doug Vahrenberg for answering this same question I put on Face Book Side Imaging group!

What I read was right and he said the two technologies won't play well together. So at least I got about $1000.00 worth canceled before it got shipped and didn't order more. Next time I'll learn to ask first!

Thanks, Doug!!

[Humminbird_Greg]

ScottMN,
I’m not 100% sure what you thought would and would not play well together here.  The 1198 and 859 units cannot share sonar data over the Ethernet connection and (depending on the menu selections made in each unit) may have sonar-to-sonar interference if both are running at the same time.  Is that it?

[ScottMN]

ScottMN,
I’m not 100% sure what you thought would and would not play well together here.  The 1198 and 859 units cannot share sonar data over the Ethernet connection and (depending on the menu selections made in each unit) may have sonar-to-sonar interference if both are running at the same time.  Is that it?

Well, ahem, it started out as (mind you, it's a long winter ;-) the idea of Birds (both with chips) because "HEY, I used to view bow & stern transducers on a switch with a bow mounted 2330,  plus helm view an x15 & Bird 90 (separate transducers) & loved it SO why not?"

#(1) Helm 1198c to view the XNT-9-DI-T stern transducer (or with TS3) the XTM-9-WIDE-DI-20T 'and' the XPTH-9-HDSI-180-T stern transducer on a split screen.....(or 2D tri-screen) plus-
----Here comes the US3 switch and/or ethernet-----
#(2) Helm 859c HD Di (on helm or bow) to view the XNT-9-DI-T stern transducer (or with TS3) the XTM-9-WIDE-DI-20T --- plus run charts for iPilot/iLink or 2D

Sounds easy huh?    

[Humminbird_Greg]

Well you could do this with the addition of (I think) a few more switches but it is not recommended that you run an Si unit on a DI transducer.  Plus you would need written directions to be able to change to the transducer you wanted to view on each unit (Flip Switch #1 to the left, raise your right foot at an 30 degree angle pointing south and toggle Switch #3 to the right,…).  The units are not designed to run their transmitters without a load on them and are more prone to failure when this happens.  Not making the correct switch combinations could possibly lead to failure of one or both units.

[ScottMN]

Yooo--Boy!! I just went here: http://tinyurl.com/lwrhzho

and it said this:

If you own one of our high definition side imaging products you can use a down imaging transducer with it to improve your down imaging readings. 

You will great readings if DI width is set to wide (this is the default).  If you change to narrow, you will get no readings.

Your 2D readings will not be as good because the 2D element in the DI transducer is smaller; therefore, weaker than the 2D element in the SI transducer

You will not get any SI views that are correct. 

It is best to use this DI transducer in conjunction with a transducer switch so that you can alternate between the DI imaging transducer and the SI transducer when viewing specific SI and 2D views.   

Haaaa...just met the UPS man at the door and refused (per Amazon, although it was falling out of the box anyway) a  $95 RAM mount.
I think I'll try out the:

(XTM 9 WIDE DI 20 T | Trolling Motor Transducers | 710235-1
Down Imaging©/DualBeam Plus©, 75°/45°, 455/800 kHz (DI) and 20°/60°, 200/83 kHz, with built in temperature, 15' Cable. Low profile design minimize snags. Easy installation, all hardware included.)

on my 1198c Si 1st with the ts3 switch to see what happens. And SLOOOOOWW down!..LOL
Thanks, Greg!   


 

[rnvinc]

Scott I'm really surprised to find that in the HB FAQ...(I'll let Greg comment on that actually being documented in the FAQ...and I wouldn't be surprised to see that documentation disappear very soon)...

And I'm also really confused on all those switches and such you have going on in that description...

Anyway....for what it's worth...

Running a DI xducer on a HB SI image unit has always been purely experimental...
http://forums.sideimagingsoft.com/index.php?topic=5388.0

We (myself and a few other guinae pigs)...tried several avenues to get HB to commit to honoring warranty with this setup...

HB's only comment they would add is consistent with what Greg already said...(the SI unit is not designed to operate the DI xducer because it leaves the left SI transmitter with an open load that could potentially damage the internal workings of the unit)...

Now if you really want to run a DI xducer on a SI unit...read the entire thread I provided above (twice)...and then you have to make a decision...are you willing to potentially sacrifice your unit for a little better DI images in your SI unit...you can see my examples of the XTM 9 WIDE DI 20 T on my 1197 in that thread and decide if you think the DI images are any better than the "DI from SI" that is provided from the stock HDSI xducer..

Once you make that decision...maybe we can work thru these ideas you have and see what can develope from them...

Rickie

PS ...I wouldn't take that documentation you found as a guaranteed ticket from HB to honor the warranty if you fry your left SI transmitter with no piezo hooked to it...it's just too off base of what HB told us when we went thru that experimental DI xducer setup...

[ScottMN]

Rickie,

Now I'm double glad I got most things stopped on that order! I wound up with a US3, a TS3 and a XTM 9 WIDE DI 20 T (was that your old one returned?) LOL.. and 200' of braided wiring loom which I can use in many places.

I actually got the idea of better DI over a year ago when Tim W. was at the Fargo boat show at the Reeds booth and told me of the setup using an xnt 9 dit & a TS3 worked so much better.

So am I going to assume that there is no better Humminbird DI available other then that which is produced with the SI multi function transducer that comes with the 1198c Si?

And that the TS3 should only be used with another SI multi-function transducer when run on an 1198c Si?

And that if I'm going to do two Di transducers with the TS3 they would have to both be on a dedicated Di (not Si) unit but wouldn't give me any better results then I already get with my 1198c Si?

Hmmmm.

Thanks,
Scott

[rnvinc]

So am I going to assume that there is no better Humminbird DI available other then that which is produced with the SI multi function transducer that comes with the 1198c Si?

My opinion is that the DI images I get with the XTM 9 WIDE DI 20 T on my 1197 are somewhat better than the DI images from the stock XHS 9 HDSI 180 T...simple physics say that the piezo pointing down in a DI xducer are going to obtain better DI echo data than SI piezoes pointing sideways in the HDSI and then re- arranging the data to "look" like a DI image....

But you have to consider...my unit is way out of warranty...and if i fry the left SI transmitter... that's just the way it goes...

And that the TS3 should only be used with another SI multi-function transducer when run on an 1198c Si?

The HB TS3 switch switch can be used with most any of the HB xducers....meaning that the wire channels in the HB TS3 switch will line up correctly...the wires in the xducer cable will determine if certain channels are used.....your term..... "should only" ...will be HB's standard answer to protect their own warranty policy...

And that if I'm going to do two Di transducers with the TS3 they would have to both be on a dedicated Di (not Si) unit but wouldn't give me any better results then I already get with my 1198c Si?

I think anyone would agree that the dedicated HB DI units are going to give better DI images than the HB SI units...simple physics again...the DI piezo in the HB DI units is pointing "down"...DI in the SI units have no "down pointing" piezo...the DI image IS the SI image...it's just re-arranged to "look like" a DI image...

Hmmmm.

Thanks,
Scott

There are several (pros included) that are using the DI xducer in their HB SI units...most with the HB TS3 switch because this makes it convenient to simply select which xducer you want to use at any certain time...

As long as you understand the warranty (or non-warranty) possibility with this setup.. as long as you understand that there is a possibility of damage to the unit...and as long as you understand that the DI images with this setup are just "marginally" better....

The decision is just up to you....

Rickie

[ScottMN]

Rickie,

So how about the (4089801, 4089701, 4089601) which are 561 or 571's ?
Comes with xnt-9-di-t for about $60 more then the transducer?
Greyscale but have you seen them work?

Scott

[rnvinc]

I don't have any examples to post of these units...but here's a good read on their bigger brother the 597ci DI ....

http://www.crappie.com/crappie/showthread.php/176102-talked-my-wife-into-getting-me-597ci-hd-di?highlight=wife

All of the HB DI units use the same stock XNT 9 DI T ...which means the variables between the units would be screen resolution, screen size, and extra bells and whistles...

The larger DI units would have better processors ...but that wouldn't affect image quality as much as it would affect GPS stuff and mapping refresh...

These smaller DI units would be a great option ...mainly because ...a 2nd unit as a dedicated DI unit would allow the use of the larger unit dedicated to SI or SI/2d....then the smaller unit could be dedicated to DI ...and you wouldn't have to be switching views back and forth ...and you wouldn't have to be switching a HB TS3 switch back and forth to view SI "or" DI...

(Just a note on the other experimental DI xducer setup ...there is no combination of xducers and switches that would allow you to view SI from the stock XHS 9 HDSI 180 T and DI from the additional XTM 9 WIDE DI 20 T at the same time in the SI unit....it's one xducer OR the other at any 1 time)...

Rickie

[ScottMN]

Welp, after spending probably 36 hrs studying I found ICE 597's for $499.00 at L&M Fleet Supply and then learned no Di...Aaarrg! Left it and said screw it. Got a 581i HD DI combo on Amazon for $250.00 new and I'll save for a 360 if it ever comes out for the Terrova. That's what happens when a guy finds an 1198c Si for $1856.00 brand new because Scheels in Fargo matched online price the first season they came out. I'd buy another for that again!