Author Topic: Black Horizontal lines?  (Read 8998 times)

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Offline mike fish

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Black Horizontal lines?
« on: August 29, 2012, 06:16:55 PM »
Hi, I got a new 798ci HD Si here. It seems to work fine except I'm getting black horizontal lines on the SI image but only on the right side, like if the ping is too high.  I can get rid of them if I tune the sensitivity down to 5. HB sent me a new ducer but still does same thing.
Will the ono2xtr? update fix this? Anyone else seen this or have any suggestions? ducer is mounted on right side. Thanks Mike


Offline Humminbird_Greg

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Re: Black Horizontal lines?
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2012, 06:41:26 AM »
Can you post a Screen Snapshot of these black horizontal lines?

What is “the ono2xtr? update fix”?

Are you running the latest software version in your unit and if so, did you load it or did it come with this software version already on it?

Greg Walters at Humminbird
gwalters@johnsonoutdoors.com

Offline mike fish

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Re: Black Horizontal lines?
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2012, 10:05:07 AM »
Hi Greg, No I don't have a snapshot yet, I didn't have a SD card with me that day. Although my screen looks just like mivision's screen shot except my lines are on the right side. No it's not trees or stucture. It does this continously no matter where you are at on the lake. If I power unit up out of water, in the garage I get gold pixel lines on the right side.

http://forums.sideimagingsoft.com/index.php?topic=2763.0

i think I figured out ono2xtr. Sounds like its a help download for side imaging products but don't know what it exactly helps or does.

I checked software and no I didn't have the current. I have updated now to 6.25.

HB suggested sending head unit in but I want to make sure it's not an error on my end first since this is all new to me. Thanks Mike

Offline Humminbird_Greg

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Re: Black Horizontal lines?
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2012, 10:35:21 AM »
I just figured out what you are talking about with the ono2xtr file:

The son2xtf file is a download for some of the units on the Humminbird web site:
Description: v1.001 Adds a Windows installer and Windows-oriented user interface, so that recording conversion is simplified. Command line interface from v1.000 still supported. Son2xtf is a PC application that converts Humminbird sonar recording (.son) files to EXtended Triton Format (XTF) revision 24, a public sonar recording format.

Did you mount the new transducer where the old one was?
Try holding whichever transducer you do not have mounted, over the side of the boat so that you can tilt it side to side.  You will have to be holding the transducer so that it is at a right angle to the boat (pointing to or away from the boat) and tilt it slowly side to side to see if those black lines appear and go away.

If that does not reveal anything than maybe updating the software will fix it (I am assuming that something did not load correctly in the original software).

If that does not help, send it into Humminbird
Greg Walters at Humminbird
gwalters@johnsonoutdoors.com

Offline slackwater

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Re: Black Horizontal lines?
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2012, 06:17:17 AM »
798c si/di I also get black lines. It mostly on right si, but does appear at times
on both si sides. Also on di doing screen change. Software version 5.450
« Last Edit: August 31, 2012, 06:43:54 AM by slackwater »

Offline Rough House

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Re: Black Horizontal lines?
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2012, 07:27:54 AM »
What water conditions is this happening in? Calm or rough?  I almost looks like the information sent from the transducer is becoming lost for that split second of time.  Almost as if you transducer is coming out of the water.  This happens to me sometimes on rough seas on lake erie caused by the transducer lifting out of the water.  But it only happens to me when we have 4-6 footers. could this be your problem?
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Offline sonar2000

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Re: Black Horizontal lines?
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2012, 01:11:06 PM »
RoughHouse seems to be on target. It does look like the transducer is bouncing...
Chuck

Offline mike fish

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Re: Black Horizontal lines?
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2012, 01:27:05 PM »
Mine does it all the time, on plane, idling, or trolling motor with big motor out of water. Water conditions were small waves/ripples[ 1' max] to calm after sunset.  My black lines are closer together. I didn't get a chance on Thursday to get out so I just sent it in to HB so I can get it back in time for my next trip.  Thanks for the replies.

Edit: I'm very excited to get the unit back as the is a ton of water that I fish that I want to explore further. I could easily spend a full day on each of these lakes just hitting known fishy spots. Been wanting one of these SI units for a few years now and decided this was the year. If this all works out well, I want to put one on the bowmount trolling motor next year and maybe even the in-laws boat although I don't know how much he'd benefit from it but would be good for me when visiting. :)
« Last Edit: September 01, 2012, 01:50:06 PM by mike fish »

Offline mike fish

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Re: Black Horizontal lines?
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2012, 09:01:27 AM »
UPDATE:  So I sent my new unit into HB. They found a wire harness was bad inside the head unit and repaired? Finally got to try it out again for the second time on Sunday 10-7-12. Results: Black lines are gone but now the right side SI is extra grainy in the resoultion. It may have been there before but I'm not sure because the black lines stood out so much. Called HB and they're saying it's noise? My question is why only 1 side? what could be causing the noise? The only things on batt. are big motor, AM/FM radio, led lights. The grainyness is there wheter if we are trolling, drifting or running big motor. Any thoughts? Also I had recorded that day and I'm not seeing recordings on my sD card, just snapshots. Thanks Mike

Offline Humminbird_Greg

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Re: Black Horizontal lines?
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2012, 10:27:49 AM »
Looks to me like both sides have a problem Mike.

Try resetting the menus to the factory defaults (Restore Defaults menu under the Setup menu tab) and testing it again without changing any menus.  If that does not help try testing with the other side imaging transducer you have by holding it over the side as I instructed before.  Make sure that you have everything else on the boat turned off when you do this (even the motors).

Make sure that you have a good electrical connection to the cranking battery of the boat.  In fact you may want to temporarily connect the power cable (only) directly to the cranking battery and test the unit again.

Greg Walters at Humminbird
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Offline mike fish

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Re: Black Horizontal lines?
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2012, 12:24:36 PM »
Greg, I don't have the 2nd transducer anymore, HB kept it when I sent everything in. They said that the transducer tested fine or was normal. Before I sent it in I checked and both transducers did the same.
They suggested to turn up noise filter and increase sensitivity and a seperate battery. Will a Vexilar batt. run  the unit? 12v 8amp.  When I went out to see where the noise tab was i did notice that there is still gold pixels on the right image.
My thought here is why is the right side more grainy than the left? The first pic I have the sens. turned up[15] the 2nd is turned way down[5?] to show that its still visible.
I am new to this but what I've seen in other images, TV, etc. I would think both sides would be equal except for your change in bottom of course. Thanks for your help.   

Offline Humminbird_Greg

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Re: Black Horizontal lines?
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2012, 12:46:22 PM »
Yes the 12-volt 8aH battery will run the 798ci HD Si unit.

If there are no obstructions for either Si sonar beam (left or right) and the lake bottom you are over is relatively flat, than both Si beams should be very, very similar.  Yours aren’t and I don’t think it has anything to do with the lake bottom.  I think that there is either something still wrong with your unit or with the transducer.

Do you know of anyone else that has a Humminbird Side Imaging unit that would allow you to test your 798ci HD unit on their boat and transducer?  Any model Humminbird Si unit will work for this as it does not have to be another 798ci HD Si model.

Greg Walters at Humminbird
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Offline mike fish

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Re: Black Horizontal lines?
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2012, 08:30:20 AM »
Greg or anyone else have any other suggestions they may have thought of to try, so that I have a full tool belt when i go to the lake for testing. I haven't had a chance to go but am on vacation next week so all next week I'm going spend on the water barring that the weather holds out. Monday is testing day and then rest of my time will be spent scouting for icefishing season. I have a couple different lakes to scout next week.
I did figure out how to view recordings and had a chance to review them. I had forgot to mention previously that the unit shut off 1 for sure and possibly twice on 10-7 also. Loose pins on plug?
 Also seen in recordings a huge void or black space in one of the recordings. Is that where it shut off? wouldn't it stop the recording or show the license agreement screen? I don't recall if I was recording or not when it shut off for sure.
Also seen that the screen had hazed/fogged over for awhile too. Thermo change, clarity of water, huge bait ball? We fishing near power plant discharge that day and above discharge temps were 59, below discharge mid 60's and right at outlet area any where from 70-74.
Also noticed that I didn't see many fish arches.?  settings wrong?
Thanks again for your help in advance. Sure am glad this site is available you folks have been a big help. Mike

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Re: Black Horizontal lines?
« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2012, 10:08:14 AM »
mike fish,
You can try slightly bending the pins on the power cable outwards away from each other.  This a very slight amount, so slight that you cannot look at it and tell that they have been bent.

The unit does not keep recording if it powers off.

Water thermo change, algae, baitfish, aerated water from another boat can all cause hazy looking sonar returns on the Si sonar. .

Fish arches are formed by the fish passing through the 2D sonar beam and rely on several factors happening at the same time.  If your 2D and/or Si sonar is not working well, and yours does not appear to be, than you will have problem seeing fish with the arched shapes.  Let’s get your Si sonar readings straight first before worrying with that,

Greg Walters at Humminbird
gwalters@johnsonoutdoors.com

Offline mike fish

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Re: Black Horizontal lines?
« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2012, 07:47:09 PM »
Alrighty, I got out today and this thing baffles me a little more. Here's why. It is a little colder today, air temp 37F/ water 46F, right away it is less grainier, still some but not as bad.
So restore defaults, Bam it clears up really well then I notice part of the original problem I had mentioned to HB{I forgot to mention that here the first post], besides the black lines there is a haze? also on right side. Majority of problems seem to be on the right side.

So now we connect it up to vex batt.  No wires crossing anything, Transducer cable is running inside boat on floor to elimate any interfernce in the gunwale of boat=Same,restore defaults=same.

So now we go back to boat launch and take off ducer, boy that water is cold and threads seem to last forever in the cold water. Back out, hanging ducer over side of boat about 2-3' under surface =same, restore=same.
 I'm doing all this in the same area, apples-apples and also tried a few different spots on lake to try to elimate bottom structure problem.
I did ask another about borrowing his cpu but no reply yet. The temp. change and less grainier really scratched my head today. Whew!

Offline mike fish

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Re: Black Horizontal lines?
« Reply #15 on: October 29, 2012, 08:58:36 PM »
Do you know how much air temp. affects pixels? or maybe never had this question? I went out to garage and put ducer back on and was curious what the gold pixels looked like in this temp. What I found is they'd be gone at 10sens. now were as before I had to get down to 5-6 to make them go away. Gold pixels are still there but had to turn up the sens. to 20 to get same effect. ?? I know I'm overthinking. Should head unit be stored indoors for winter?

Offline Humminbird_Greg

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Re: Black Horizontal lines?
« Reply #16 on: October 30, 2012, 10:41:54 AM »
I doubt that the lower air temperature affected the display, so it should not affect the pixels of the display.  These units are designed to withstand ice fishing conditions so I doubt that it was that cold (yet!).  Depending on how cold it is you may consider keeping your unit indoors for the winter except for use.  Not sure what the low temp storage spec is but it should be at least -20C if not lower.

Any sonar readings you get with the transducer out of the water are not very meaningful.

The only way that the air temperature can affect the haze on a unit’s sonar display is if it affects the cause of the haze: water temperature change, baitfish schooling, other boats being on the water or their absence.

Greg Walters at Humminbird
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Offline flatcat_auz

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Re: Black Horizontal lines?
« Reply #17 on: October 31, 2012, 03:19:55 AM »
I too get these 'lines' in my 798CXI. The only thing I can put it down to is a low frequency vibration traveling through the transom at certain revolutions. I'm in a 4.5mtr alloy runabout with a 2012 50hp Toyhatsu. Great motor but doesn't appreciate going at the speed required to pick up a nice pick. Can reduce lines by adjusting RPM to suit. And it's not electrical noise, chased that one down from the outset  8)
The best boats seem to be the low to the water, fiberglass hulls with low vibration motors.
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Offline mike fish

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Re: Black Horizontal lines?
« Reply #18 on: October 31, 2012, 09:36:40 PM »
 pic from today

Offline flatcat_auz

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Re: Black Horizontal lines?
« Reply #19 on: November 02, 2012, 01:32:41 AM »
Here is a good example. Lake Macquarie NSW Australia-Saltwater - moderate amount of suspended material still visible (read cloudy water-due to wind). Have had good results with same conditions.

Second one is same lake (it's massive) on a known tyre reef. I believe it is the weed growing up from said reef.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2012, 01:38:55 AM by flatcat_auz »
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Offline mike fish

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Re: Black Horizontal lines?
« Reply #20 on: January 20, 2013, 12:28:26 AM »
Quick update: Both head unit and transducer were deemed defective, both replaced. Only had a 2 quick hours to try out new stuff before open water was done here in MN. SI has equal images on both sides now, no more haze.  Still questioning fish arches. The new quirk though is when I turn on sharpness the screen contrast/brightness now blinks or oscilllates.  Anyone ever see this? I'll have to look into further when spring gets here.


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