Topic: finland,,, russian tank find.

[wizzo86]

Thought you guys would like seeing this one. I dont know how they found them. Was thinking it could have been a si find. Here's the like,,, enjoy!!!! http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,294103.0.html

[soretoe]

Wow what a find.

I wish I could go back to Hawaii with my SI. While scuba diving over there we found several mini tanks, Japanese planes that had been shot down and a complete ammo dump from WWII. One of the tanks had a live sea shell that absorbed some of the rust from the tank and it took on that color.

[wizzo86]

I did some diving this past summer around hawai ( the big island). Wassome ofthe best diving i've personally done an that's saying something.
I'm sure your talking about your diving around the navy base on honnalu

[soretoe]

Yeau we did most of our diving around Oahu. But made a few side trips to Lanai, Maui & Hawaii.

[IRC Kevin]

That's some find, but sadly, looking at the hatches, I reckon the crew were still in there. Tanks and deep water don't go together well- I always hated it when we 'swam' our Scorpion tanks across the River Weser at Hameln.

[wizzo86]

If you scroll down through the repiles on the link you will see that the crew was still in the tank. I asked the original poster some questions about the find. this is in that list as well....I'll keep up with this one... very intresting....

[wizzo86]

here is the reply to my e mail to the oridinal poster of the tank find... very intresting.

Commander's tank was discovered in the vicinity of Vyborg Podborovya rescued by chance when looking for the body of a drowned recently in these parts businessman and politician Cyril Ragozina.Oblastnoy Committee of Physical Culture and Sport has made a request to Russia's state archives, but little data. Even the name of a military unit, armed with the location of the tank, found only tentatively - 43 light tank regiment. Some calculation was to help people, but despite the activity of many media, including federal, in the coverage of this event, the response came only one. Elderly residents of Lithuania reported that their eyes have seen the death of the tank, and even knows the name of the driver. But the search engines for some grounds treated narrated stories with caution .. Historical building located at a depth of 15 meters at a distance of over a kilometer from shore. According to the divers at the bottom of the bay is a group of tanks - a modification, consisting of 5.6 units. As suggested in the company, a tank with a crew consisting of 3 persons, sank in the Gulf of Finland in March 1940. In recent days, Russian-Finnish war.

[Rickard]

In case someone wants to learn about the Winter War this is the best site I'm aware of: http://www.winterwar.com/

Rickard

[wizzo86]

Thanks Rickard! This is all new to me. I have never heard of this war before. Sure do learn some important things here on this forum....

[Rickard]

The Viborg bay should be a paradise for sidescanners. Two great events of war have left lots of targets at the seafloor. The first event was the "Viborg gauntlet" in 1790 when 400 Swedish warships broke out from the inner part of the bay and fought with the 150 ships strong Russian navy unit that blocked the bay. At least 50 ships were lost at both sides. The second event was the massive Soviet assault over the ice of the bay during the last week of the winter war. The recovered tank must have been lost at that occasion. It would be really interesting to see sidescan results from that area. Are there any Russians with access to the Viborg area at this forum?

Rickard

[wizzo86]

Rickard..... I sure hope so... I'm not sure what the depths are there . I do know we have some Russian members at the forum. I think some Finnish as well. Not sure if they are cose to there or not. Sure would be intresting to see some side imaging.

[Stas]

Hi!I live in Viborg and I can say that the story of Unas really bogataya.No Gulf isledovan little as the water muddy and not everyone wants to learn. Although Ask us everywhere everywhere you look you can find something interesting.
  Swedish fleet under the flag of King Gustav III lost 7 battleships, 3 frigates and 50 crest-sailing ships. 74 - gun battleship �Lovisa Ulrika�, 66 - gun battleship �Enigheten�, 62-gun battleship �Hedvig Elisabeth Charlotta� died and sank near Cape Kryusserort (Cross).

In the Gulf of Finland at the depth limit for divers, the three victims Swedish battleships found and investigated.
http://vyborgklad.ru/

[wizzo86]

Thank you Stas for your reply. This is why I love this forum. A bunch of great people united in a common interest. I sure understand that not  many divers appreciate low visability, cold water and mud diving. Here in the north atlantic that is the norm and we learn to love it if you want to dive regularly. Dry suit diving, hood and gloves mandatory. I'm a dive instructor trainer for technical diving international and love that kind ofdiving. You are in an area that not many people dive i'm sure. There is alot to find for the adventurous diver. Keep us posted on your discoveries.

[Jolly Roger]

Hey Whiz,
that sounds like fun over there, what do you think?
Maybe worth a treasure dive trip?

Regards / Harry

[wizzo86]

sure sounds like we need to start making plans Harry! All we need is a side scan, boat and some cold weather dive gear. It soulds liike we already have stas for a gide. Sure would be fun diving. Maybe we could talk Robert into joining. Wonder what the best time of year weather wise is for diving.

[Jolly Roger]

I'd say beginning of summer when the weeds and algae aren't in bloom and the weather and water is already warmed up.
We would also need someone who's fluent in English/German and finish/Russian, because besides English I speak only some chunks of Italian (due Birra) and french (parlez vous Pommes Frites?)  .

Harry

[Rickard]

Good luck with your diving plans but....
I think you have to be aware this area was part of the "Iron Curtain" until recently. The whole area has been a kind of military buffer zone with few inhabitants (the Finns living at the Karelian Isthmus, part of Finland, had to flee and few Russian civilians have moved in to the area afterwards, perhaps with the exception of Viborg city). Both shores of the bay are Russian territory and Finns have no access to it since the war (the area was Swedish/Finnish for 700 years before WW2). This situation is the final result of the collaboration between two of the most brutal war criminals in history, Josef Stalin (assault on Poland, the Baltic countries and Finland plus elimination of millions of Russians, Ukrainians and others in e. g. the Gulag program) and Adolf Hitler (you already know his CV). Many older Russians don't recognize such a description but that's the bitter truth. So, there has recently happened things in your diving area that I think still have to be processed in the Finnish and the Russian peoples minds before the sky over the bay becomes as clear as it should be a good day of diving...

Stas, what do you say about my serious words on this, should we forgive and forget and join and go for some scanning and diving together when time and other circumstances allows for it?

The warmest and kindest regards from Sweden
Rickard

[Jolly Roger]

Ooops, haven't thought about this Rickard.
Soviet? ---> Nuclear waste and stuff??
Let's see what Stas says.

Harry

[Stas]

Войны за Выборг начались очень давно еще когда Шведы пришли заваевывать.Изначально здесь жили разные финские племена, которые платили дань Новгороду,потом теретория часто меняла своих хозяев.Поэтому Выборг богат своей историей. Насчет Сталина и Гитлера - я считаю это позор и наш и немцев. Они сгубили столько народу - просто страшно об этом думать.Насчет завоевания балтийских стран и Польши то тут сложно судить - теже поляки разделяются на две части одни говорят что русские освободили их, а другие что мы пришли как завоеватели. Лично я прежде чем сделать вывод стараюсь послушать что говорят другие народы. Потомучто правители всех государств стараются приукрасить. Вобще война некрасит - я за дружбу всех народов. А показывать свою силу надо не оружием, а в спорте и своими достижениями в области науки.

[Stas]

War of Vyborg started very long time even when the Swedes came zavaevyvat.Iznachalno lived here different Finnish tribes who paid tribute to Novgorod, and then teretoriya often changed their hozyaev.Poetomu Vyborg rich history. As for Stalin and Hitler - I think it is a disgrace and we and the Germans. They have ruined so many people - just terrible about it dumat.Naschet conquest of the Baltic countries and Poland, then here is difficult to judge - tezhe Poles are divided into two parts, some say that the Russian freed them, and others that we came as conquerors. Personally, before I conclude I try to listen to what other people say. Because that the rulers of all states are trying to embellish. Вобще war is ugly - I for the friendship of all peoples. And to show its strength should not weapons, but in sport and its achievements in the field of science.

[wizzo86]

Who would have thought when Rebert conceied this forum that we would be involved in propigating world peace? What a cival conversation we are having here. I'm so glad for the quality of our world forum members. Too be able to talk about difficult topica and come to a friendly underatanding. Maybe one day we will all be able to dive together there and explore our history together thankfully as comrads and friends.

[Kimi]

Wellcome to the Gulf of Finland. This is the paradise for wreckhunting, and sidescanning. ( if you dont respect the laws)
The hole coastline is a big graveyard, and it has been battelfield for over 500 years. Mercantships from Holland to St. Petersburg hit the rocks we got milloins of. The russian Navy has allways shown a bad reputations as sailors. And ewen if the Russian tried to hit the finish coast, they selldom sucseeded. Their battelships was to big for doggfights inshore.
Later under  ww1 and ww2 the commanders of the russian warships had no other choise than to follow stupid orders. That resulted that they hit mines, or get sunk by Finish or German submarines. Ewen after the ww2 the soviet "spyboats" entered the finish archipelago. Bad seamanship ofen resulted in disaster. The finish rock is hard like hell and too ofen closer the surface than one can belive. In other words its the best weapon of maritime selfdefence warefare ewer made. Thanks for that.
 
In battles near coastline the russian army tried several times to use the ice to hit the finns in their back. As far as I know no such attack newer lead to enything else than that the tank drow thru the Ice and sunk. Ewen a small tank is to heavy to go out on the ice of the gulf of Fnland. Lakes are a different thing!


An other factor that makes the gulf of finland or ewen the hole Baltic sea an big UV-maritime museum, is that water is mix of frech and saltwater. An environment wher the shipmask (teredo navalis) cant survive. So nothing is eaten up the wooden ships. Long winters, and lo oxygenlevels allso makes the wrecks to last longer.
 
We got ships from the 1700 century that still stands up whit masts and ewerything.
 
 http://www.abc.se/~m10354/publ/vr_maria.htm
http://www.abc.se/~m10354/uwa/stmichel.htm
http://www.abc.se/~m10354/uwa/kymenlaa.htm#nikolai
http://www.abc.se/~m10354/publ/lapuri.htm
 
Here is some links to start whit.
 
Kimi...
 
 
 
 

[IRC Kevin]

Great links, Kimi.

[wizzo86]

thanks for the links. Great information. I knew someone had to be searching that area. It looks like the wrecks we find here in the states in the great lakes. only one archeoiligist? Seems like it's that was all over the world. Little fiunding for things most people will never see.

[Kimi]

thanks for the links. Great information. I knew someone had to be searching that area. It looks like the wrecks we find here in the states in the great lakes. only one archeoiligist? Seems like it's that was all over the world. Little fiunding for things most people will never see.

I think the conditions and environment can be quiet similar in the Gulf of Finland and the great lakes. The history of these too areas is different. Imagin that the Great lakes had been sourounded by "superstates" of the time.
War and trading creates wrecks. God for us, bad for the people of the past! 

Kimi..

[Stas]

I want to add. There where the large battle of fleets of Russia and Sweden passed there was scuppered more than 50 ships. It is found and иследуется three ships battleship of "Lovisa Ulrika", 66 is a gun battleship of "Enigheten", 62-gun battleship of "Hedvig Elisabeth Charlotta" in a district cape of Крюссерорт (Cross). It is a place by the обьявленно monument of architecture. The search of other ships is conducted extremely badly is disgrace впервую turn to us, time leaves in fact. And tanks it was found out a few, and smuggled out of one. But in other tanks there are soldiers which are necessary to be buried. But because around stones and that to get tanks it is necessary quite a bit facilities, then by it nobody нехочет to occupy. Bitterly but it is a true.