Topic: Serious problem with my 1197c si - Help Greg

[ITGEEK]

I copied my master DATA.HWR file to my PC for safekeeping.
I then shrank my waypoints down to only one area I am currently fishing.
So, my DATA.HWR file on the SD card is much smaller than it has been.

I went out the other day and added some temporary waypoints.
Yesterday, I deleted all the waypoints from my unit (to get rid of the temporary ones).
I then put the SD card back in to load in my permanent waypoints and it said 'loading waypoints'.
It would not go off the screen, and the unit locked up.

I took the SD card out, and when I booted up, it said 'No GPS fix'.
I booted the system in status mode and it says that everything passed.
I tried to boot in simulator mode, but it just locks up.

I then took the SD card to the PC and opened the DATA.HWR file into
HumminbirdPC and I found a duplicate waypoint in there.  I had two waypoints with
the exact same name.  I deleted one and uploaded the new file to the SD card.

I put the SD card back in my machine and it says 'loading waypoints', which won't go away.
The unit still gets frozen.

I am running 5.840, so the only thing I could do is to download the previous version 5.500.
When I boot up, it says do you want to replace the software version, and I click yes, and it
goes to the recording screen and displays 'loading waypoints'  and the unit freezes up.

The only thing I haven't tried is to erase the DATA.HWR file from the SD card and try to
do the software downgrade.

Does anybody have any suggestions.
This is a real bummer.
The unit is currently unuseable.
The unit worked perfectly on the water the other day.
I think the duplicate waypoint name corrupted something.

My unit hasn't been able to see a recording properly in a long while.

[sonar2000]

ITG, you might try resetting your computere to the 5.5 using HB PC and the direct cable connection..
Chuck

[ITGEEK]

Thanks Chuck.

I called HB customer support and they DO NOT recommend that
method with the 1197.
I don't know why.

[sonar2000]

Hmmmm,,.....1st I have heard of that.  strange.......
I wonder if you might try it anyway before sending in the unit...this is an interesting turn of event....
We are still at 5.5 so dont know what is happening with 5.8 as a comparison....
Chuck

[ITGEEK]

Does anybody know what the 'reset' does in the bootstrap (View plus Power key)
does?

Thanks in advance.

[sonar2000]

Dont know for exactly in detail what "reset" changes or over writes in memory.....Or what things are deleted...or cleared...
If Jolly Rogers checks in he may have knowledge.   Greg can find out hopefully..........
I will do some more asking......Robert G might know..

Chuck

[stillbear]

I copied my master DATA.HWR file to my PC for safekeeping.
I then shrank my waypoints down to only one area I am currently fishing.
So, my DATA.HWR file on the SD card is much smaller than it has been.

I went out the other day and added some temporary waypoints.
Yesterday, I deleted all the waypoints from my unit (to get rid of the temporary ones).
I then put the SD card back in to load in my permanent waypoints and it said 'loading waypoints'.
It would not go off the screen, and the unit locked up.

I took the SD card out, and when I booted up, it said 'No GPS fix'.
I booted the system in status mode and it says that everything passed.
I tried to boot in simulator mode, but it just locks up.

I then took the SD card to the PC and opened the DATA.HWR file into
HumminbirdPC and I found a duplicate waypoint in there.  I had two waypoints with
the exact same name.  I deleted one and uploaded the new file to the SD card.

I put the SD card back in my machine and it says 'loading waypoints', which won't go away.
The unit still gets frozen.

I am running 5.840, so the only thing I could do is to download the previous version 5.500.
When I boot up, it says do you want to replace the software version, and I click yes, and it
goes to the recording screen and displays 'loading waypoints'  and the unit freezes up.

The only thing I haven't tried is to erase the DATA.HWR file from the SD card and try to
do the software downgrade.

Does anybody have any suggestions.
This is a real bummer.
The unit is currently unuseable.
The unit worked perfectly on the water the other day.
I think the duplicate waypoint name corrupted something.

My unit hasn't been able to see a recording properly in a long while.

Sorry to hear your unit is not working. If it were my unit it would be on its way to HB support to get repaired.Also  I would
reconsider furture shrinking of waypoints, routes,etc..    Gary

[ITGEEK]

Well, extremely good news.
After several hours and many reboots,
I managed to downgrade to version 5.500, then upgrade back up to
5.840.

I think I had a corrupted waypoint.
Humminbird support said that a corrupted waypoint WILL
MOST CERTAINLY lock up a unit.

These units are very temperamental.
All is now working as it should.

I think my idea of splitting up the waypoints for separate places
I fish is a good idea.

We'll see how it works out in the future.

Thanks to all that replied.

[sonar2000]

ITG....did HB define "corrupted" waypoint.  I wonder what exactly it means and how that effects the operation. Seems this should be a discarded point and not a lockup result as waypoints are not instructional code but a display location..
Chuck 

[ITGEEK]

Chuck,
HB did not give me any specifics of how a waypoint can get corrupted.
I have an idea how it might happen.
If your machine is loading in the waypoints (and you think it's stuck),
and you pull the SD card out, I think that might corrupt something.
Not sure, but that may have been where all my recent problems started.
Maybe if a waypoint is missing some information, then the system isn't programmed
to handle it.

In the past, when I was having problems viewing recordings, HB CS told me to
open my DATA.HWR file in Humminbird PC so that the
waypoints would be certified/cleaned.

Also, Greg said that some older versions of the software may have
used different waypoint names that are no longer supported.
That can also cause problems with newer software updates.

The lady I talked to in HB customer support told me that a corrupted waypoint
can freeze up a system where it is unuseable.

My system wasn't totally locked up after a reboot, but I could only press one or two
buttons, then it would freeze up solid.

[sonar2000]

OK, thanks, I would think that if a data file on a card was bad then operating without the card should be the norm. But we dont write the HB code so who knows what is in the mind of the coder. Most computers I work with dont lock up if you have a bad data file on an external file.  In fact mosty programs dont lock up the computer if an internal data file is bad.  It flags the file as unusable and goes on about its business..

We dont pay much more for laptops than we do for the sonars... ....

Chuck

[ITGEEK]

Those are very good points you make Chuck.

The thing is:
The waypoints are connected to the maps.
If a coordinate is wrong or is missing, it may be trying
to draw/place it outside of the mapping area which may
clog up the whole deal.

I don't know.
I wish HB would program into the Boot Strap a way for us to
delete all of the waypoints on the unit at startup before
it starts to execute the main code.
We should have all our waypoints backed up to SD cards anyway.

I think HB would have a lot of happier customers with workable machines,
if they did that.

Let's hope for the best.

[sonar2000]

ITG.  agree...A bootstrap or a "reset" should restore the unit to unconfigured or customized code. It should wipe out all added data.
this of course places the responsibility of data maintenance on the user but that is what we are used to in the computer world..
We should back up our waypoints, or any data we place in the unit. If the data becomes corrupted then as with any computer we always have two backups. current & previous. Files should be checked for completeness before backing up..

I will say again, we pay abouit the same for our laptops and we spend much  more time on data maintenance than we do on the sonar units which cost about the same...

Now I realize that not all folks are computer literate which is why the unit manufacture should give special attention to the buyers.

A long time ago IBM thought they knew more of the customers needs than the customer and quit asking them for what they wanted.  IBM built computers based on their thoughts and not the customer.  wonder why IBM dropped from #1 on the fortune 500 list?

Remember who they are:........They are the ones who did it to them.......

Chuck

[Bob B]

IBM made one huge mistake...they partnered with Bill Gates to develop DOS and the first PC.  I don't think the PC would ever have caught on with the business market if IBM hadn't legitamized it.  At that time anything IBM was a "safe" decision for middle managers.  Then IBM decided the puny PC would never amount to anything and sold Gates all the rights to DOS.....Big Mistake.

Right now I see HB making mistakes that could hurt them bad.  They were the ones who made the initial innovations in side imaging, but now seem to be just trying to keep up with the new innovations from the other guys....(Ethernet, Dedicated Down Imaging, Radar, etc.)  The other guys have been interfacing multiple units via ethernet for a while.
They really need be taking the suggestions of their customers more seriously and getting back to being the innovators. They need to be partnering better with the other companies owned by Johnson Outdoors and creating a "suite" of products that play together in a way the competition will really have a hard time matching. ...Things like interfacing the I-Pilot with HB to save and load tracks to the I-Pilot.  They need to hire some real geniuses for their software development, give them a padded room and pay them waterver they have to in order to get the best of the best.

Ok, that was my rant for the day.

[sonar2000]

good rant Bob........IBM in the late 70's made the fateful mistake and it has cost them since.  Their stock is ok but not what it was and they lost the fortune 500 rating held for many years....
Today especially business must listen to their customers closely....which is what marketing is also supposed to be doing.. Telling someone what is good for them does not meet the needs if their product does not deliver...and all the while knowing that other products may be ahead of the curve..
We live in an economic difficult time now and service may play the big part of a comeback.  Simply creating a manufacturing plant for job creation will not do if the product does not perform greater than the competition..

HB has a product worth supporting and I hope JOD can see thru the smoke.....

Now we are all ranting.... ...

Chuck

[ITGEEK]

Bob,
Side-imaging was a technological break through as far as fishing sonars go.
These break throughs are very hard to come by, and don't happen that often.
You can't expect a company to come up with ground breaking stuff all the time.
I'm sure it's extremely difficult to do.

Also, you can't blame HB in trying to keep up with the competition.
I think HB is on the right track with introducing Radar.

I think HB would be way ahead of the game, and competition if they started to build
there systems in a modular fashion.  In other words, so that the computer chip, screen,
hard-drive, and other working components could just be popped in and out.
That way, a customer could continue to upgrade their systems
for 5+ years when faster chips, more/faster memory, clearer/brighter screens
become available.
This would clearly be innovative.
Now, you buy the very best, and in 2 years, it's considered to be a legacy model.
I'm sure that customers would really appreciate a move in this direction.

[sonar2000]

+10 on that..

[Bob B]

ITGEEK, I am not "blaming" them for coming out with radar.  I am just saying they should be doing some of these new inovations themselves instead of just trying to keep up now.

If they had "the best of the best" software developers it would't have taken them an eon to come out with the long promised waypoint management ....as an example.

They could introduce some "wow" features with Lakemaster that only work with HB...maybe a way to "auto" compensate for lake depth and GPS position....etc,etc.

They could come out with a low cost "dumb" monitor that is fully waterproof, great visibility, and via the ethernet allows performing some functions to the "main" unit....they already have the video interface.....use it in a way the others can't.

There are a multitude of innovations that could be dreamed up to put them back in front....not just trying to keep up.

I have a guide trip booked with a guy that used to be a HB guy, but now has 4 Lowrance units on his boat with all of them interfaced, sharing waypoints, etc....and he loves it.  He doesn't trash HB, but his business requires he have the best features available.
It is necessary for HB to keep ahead with their product because the poor customer service reputation with Lowrance won't last forever.

Guess I wasn't done with my "rant" for the day.

[ITGEEK]

Bob,
You also have to take the poor state of the economy into account.
Not everybody can afford these expensive sonar units.
When side-imaging first came out, HB was on a roll.
But, I think they produced many more large units than they
could end up selling.
A few years ago, the 1197 was the flagship sonar and was always displayed first.
Now, the 1198 is the flagship, but it's not displayed first.
They are now pushing the mid to low priced units because
many of their past customers don't have jobs.

A few years ago, the Bassmasters boats all had the biggest screens.
But, now the sponsors don't have as much money, so the
screens have gotten smaller.

Research and development costs money.
It's not the best time to try and come out with innovative
new ideas.

I think HB should concentrate on making their present
user's happy, with error free software updates, and
building the machines they have now to last longer,
because customers don't have the money they used to have.
They can't get a new sonar every couple of years like they
used to be able to.

If that guy is happy with Lowrance that is great.
Lowrance makes a good product.
If HB tries to stay up with Lowrance or vice versa,
it means that the user's will get better units in the
long run.  All of us will be better off because of it.

I'm sure Lowrance is feeling the effects of the economy too.
I think these companies right now are just trying to keep paychecks
going to their employees.  They are probably making most of
their money repairing older machines.

When the economy gets strong again, then bam, something
new and fantastic will come out.  I'm sure of it.

Until then, I hope my Legacy unit keeps on working.

[stillbear]

ITGEEK, I am not "blaming" them for coming out with radar.  I am just saying they should be doing some of these new inovations themselves instead of just trying to keep up now.

If they had "the best of the best" software developers it would't have taken them an eon to come out with the long promised waypoint management ....as an example.

They could introduce some "wow" features with Lakemaster that only work with HB...maybe a way to "auto" compensate for lake depth and GPS position....etc,etc.

They could come out with a low cost "dumb" monitor that is fully waterproof, great visibility, and via the ethernet allows performing some functions to the "main" unit....they already have the video interface.....use it in a way the others can't.

There are a multitude of innovations that could be dreamed up to put them back in front....not just trying to keep up.

I have a guide trip booked with a guy that used to be a HB guy, but now has 4 Lowrance units on his boat with all of them interfaced, sharing waypoints, etc....and he loves it.  He doesn't trash HB, but his business requires he have the best features available.
It is necessary for HB to keep ahead with their product because the poor customer service reputation with Lowrance won't last forever.

Guess I wasn't done with my "rant" for the day.

Bob is your guide trip on Shelbyville.   Gary

[Bob B]

You got it Stillbear.

Itgeek, I still don't think you are understanding my point.

For instance, there are many people who would like to have a second unit on the bow.  A "low cost" dumb unit that could be connected via a combination of ethernet and the existing video out would open a new market for people who can't afford it now.
Many of the innovations wouldn't require new hardware, but could be done with software updates, and I think they are weak in that area right now.

They are going to fall way behind if Lowrance figures out a way to reduce the cost of their units.  They are driving the innovation right now and being very sucessful in the poor economy for doing so.

I think I did hijack your post, however, so I apologize for that.

[sonar2000]

I think all of this is pertainent to the original post but as far as hijack I probably should have split this topic as soon as we went slightly off center.
So I will share some of the blame for the hijack..
Chuck

[Bob B]

Hey Itgeek, now my mind won't let go of this thing.

How about just having a powerful box....think of it as a server, that everything interfaces to, and add on "dumb terminals".....think of them as thin clients.  Put a USB port on the main box for memory expansion, etc. 
You could have everything interface to the server with ethernet or USB.
By the way, why not accomodate add on applications.  Make it more friendly for people like Dr Depth to develop applications that will run on your server, or develop their own applications and sell them for extra.....not everyone wants or needs every function....This concept sure worked for Bill Gates.
Add on a second tranducer....into the server.  Add a second GPS into the server.  Access either GPS or transducer from anywhere you want.  Have the Lakemaster chip plug into the server and look at it from any "dumb terminal"......you could already do that with the video output.

Just have to have a network on your boat and put your "dumb terminals" anywhere you want.

Want to start a sonar company?....Now my Hijack got worse...

[sonar2000]

Bob, I looked back thru the posts trying to find a split point.  After rereading all the posts, I think that the direction and comments on the original thread are related so lets continue on.
Hopefully HB will take note of our conversations as it relates to problems currently there with interaction and function..
Chuck

[ITGEEK]

Those are some great ideas you have there Bob.
Just run everything like a computer network.
It would actually be better if we could have Screens that
were not connected to the main unit, but were modular.
We could have as many as we want all over the boat.

This is fun to think about, but I think changes like this will be years in the
making.

[Bob B]

I think they are using a Unix based OS in the Hbirds....maybe wouldn't be that hard to run as an application on a unix server?

Hardest part would be getting all the devices come in via USB.....The transducers would have to have an external power driver that the server communicated with....or the server box would just have to have some transducer outputs also.