Author Topic: Problem with Side Imaging on my 1198c  (Read 21432 times)

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Offline Rough House

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Problem with Side Imaging on my 1198c
« on: June 11, 2012, 08:23:33 PM »
I hope someone can help me.  Trying to figure out whats wrong with my port side, side images.  Ive attached some pics to show whats going on and some pics of the mounting of my transducer. 

Port side, side images are very dark like the signal is lost or being blocked by something.  In the transducer mounting pics it looks like the rudder could be the problem but if I turn the rudder all the way to the right or left (which it turns about 75 degrees, almost flush with the transom) the SI still gives the same the same results on the left (port) side. I have the SI Images bumped up to 16 on sensitivity to show the difference between port and starboard.  I usually run around 12.

 Im not to familiar with these transducers and i was wondering, do the electronics that control the beam, shoot from the end of the transducer because if so it actually sticks out 2 inches past that the rudder.   Hard to tell in the pics because there not exactly centered but i do have some distance between the back edge of the transducer and the rudder. If the electronics that control the SI beam runs along the sides of the transducer I would think that the rudder is blocking it but if i turn the rudder to either side i still get these same results.  Any help would be great.

I also dont have any pics but my down imaging isn't working great either.  It doesn't show anything but the bottom contour of the lake.  I go over rocks, humps, or big pods of fish, and when the sonar is packed full of marks and the DI shows nothing but bottom contour. No fish or rocks or much of anything.   Even when the DI sensitivity is set to 20.  The first pic is of a sonar shot and when i switch to DI it shows absolutely nothing but the bottom contour of the lake.  Do you guys think something is wrong with my transducer?  Im contacting humminbird tomorrow but I figured Id post on here as well.
Thanks in advance.
RH
« Last Edit: June 11, 2012, 11:28:20 PM by Rough House »
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Offline W9GFO

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Re: Problem with Side Imaging on my 1198c
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2012, 12:56:38 AM »
Looks to me like it is angled down too much and the rudder is partially blocking it. You want it to be level when the boat is moving. Unless your boat rides with the bow waaay down, it needs to be angled up quite a bit.

I believe the beam comes out at about the middle of the transducer.

Offline Rough House

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Re: Problem with Side Imaging on my 1198c
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2012, 07:53:37 AM »
Thats something i can try very easy. The only thing is why is my starboard side fine???  The last pic in the group above is my boat sitting at the marina with motor off, so no prop wash.  Just strange to me.
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Offline Roddy

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Re: Problem with Side Imaging on my 1198c
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2012, 12:09:19 PM »
Rough House, The rudder is blocking the port side. Prop wash is a problem also.

Pix #3 sensitivity is set ti high for the water depth.

Best fix a through hull transducer set forward of the prop.

Roddy
Scan,Scan and Rescan Roddy

Offline Rough House

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Re: Problem with Side Imaging on my 1198c
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2012, 01:10:41 PM »
Just got off the phone with Humminbird. We came to the conclusion that the rudder was the issue.  I went ahead and ordered another transducer for the other side and a y cable to make a dedicated right and left beam.  Hopefully that will fix the issue.  We really dont want to do a thru hull for the reason that we usually update sonar and gps ever couple of years.  Just dont want to punch a hole in the hull if we dont have to, just rather attach another transducer to the transom. Thanks roddy for the help. 

Do you guys think that because of the issue with the rudder is a main reason that the DI isnt working properly either?  Ive read that the 1198c Si gathers its information from both left and right beams where they overlap and thats the information for the DI.  Seeing that im not really gathering any information from my port side might that be the reason for the not so go performance of my DI?  Wish I had a picture.
RH
« Last Edit: June 12, 2012, 01:20:09 PM by Rough House »
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Offline Roddy

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Re: Problem with Side Imaging on my 1198c
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2012, 01:23:22 AM »
Rough House, Your unit is receiving data from both sides but what returning to the left side is only bouncing back off the rudder and turbulence from the prop.

RH, the installation of two SI transducers will be an inefficient method of user time and work load.
  Work load with two transducers: Change transducers switch from left to right go into unit menu change transducer  settings from left to right then exit. then do this all over each time to change sides!
  Real pain in the head!!!

  Install the through hull transducer. Life would be EZ'er and a lot more fun.

RH, A Y-cable is not the right part for a two si transducer installation. What is required is a TS3 switch. Call HB and CXL and order a TS3.

Roddy
« Last Edit: June 13, 2012, 01:35:06 AM by Roddy »
Scan,Scan and Rescan Roddy

Offline Rough House

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Re: Problem with Side Imaging on my 1198c
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2012, 12:07:48 PM »
That is not what humminbird told me.  They told me that the right side transducer will control Right side SI, , 2d, and Temp and the left side Transducer will only be used for Left side Si. and that both work together for DI.
The Y cable i ordered is AS-SI-LR-Y which on the website states
 
Side Imaging Splitter Cable

Y Cable - Separates Side Imaging into Left and Right Beams - for Side Imaging products only. Allows the use of two side imaging transducers with one unit without the need for a transducer switch. Used in applications where the a plastic thru the hull transducer is required on a boat with a deep V hull. Can also be used if the motor or other items on the exterior of the boat may block one side of the transducer and distort readings.

No need for a switch and the customer service rep told me that it will work exactly the same as using one Transducer as far as on the unit itself.  I dont have to switch from left to right to view on the unit.  The information gathered from right and left side transducers will work in together simultaneously and show on the screen as if i was just using the one transducer.  I just got off the phone with humminbird CS just to make sure of this.
Thank you Roddy for taking an interest in my dilemma. 

Is there anyone else that is running this system. I just want to make sure before I install??
« Last Edit: June 13, 2012, 12:34:10 PM by Rough House »
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Offline Roddy

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Re: Problem with Side Imaging on my 1198c
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2012, 06:25:23 PM »
Rough House, OK. My bad.

Roddy
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Offline Rough House

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Re: Problem with Side Imaging on my 1198c
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2012, 06:41:10 PM »
Its cool roddy. I meant no disrespect.  I really appreciate the help because it got me thinking and rethinking my situation. 
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Offline W9GFO

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Re: Problem with Side Imaging on my 1198c
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2012, 06:43:33 PM »
Have you tested it after changing the angle of the transducer?

Offline Rough House

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Re: Problem with Side Imaging on my 1198c
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2012, 07:09:51 PM »
yes.  no change.  CS said that the whole length of both sides of the transducer need to be free of obstructions. That the piezzos are around 5 inches long.  I only have 2 inches of clearance which is why i was getting bad returns from the left side.  It was hitting the rudder and bouncing back.
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Offline Humminbird_Greg

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Re: Problem with Side Imaging on my 1198c
« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2012, 11:03:35 AM »
Rough House,
The CRC Rep was correct.
Let us know how this turns out and please post more fish pics like the one above!

Greg Walters at Humminbird
gwalters@johnsonoutdoors.com

Offline Rough House

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Re: Problem with Side Imaging on my 1198c
« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2012, 12:24:30 AM »
ok. got the second transducer hooked up and the side imaging is working great.  Still not sure why my down imaging isnt really showing fish.  No matter what i change the sensitivity to, it still shows a featureless water column when marking fish with the 2d sonar.  I realize it gathers the information from the side imaging. What are your thoughts guys? 
first pic is with the down and side sensitivity set between 10-12. Cant remember
next 3 are with them set to around 17 or 18.
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Offline Del

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Re: Problem with Side Imaging on my 1198c
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2012, 05:59:09 AM »
The FishID is fetched by 83/200khz returns only, so pretty much the 2D Sonar. The sensivity of your SI doesnt have anything to do with FishID returns,its just changing the appearance of SI returns on your screen. To activate your fishID you'll need to press "Menue" twice and get to the Sonar/Transducer Options (sorry dont have my unit over here). There you can activate and deactivate the FishID and also set the sensivity from 0 to 10. 10 would return even verry small fish. Also switching from salt to freshwater is changing the sensivity for FishID returns a bit i think. Salt = bigger fish.


Hope I could help you. If you cant find it i'll past a more detailed information how to set it.


/del
« Last Edit: June 19, 2012, 06:00:12 AM by Del »

Offline Humminbird_Greg

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Re: Problem with Side Imaging on my 1198c
« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2012, 10:10:24 AM »
Rough House,
What Down Imaging Beam Width menu setting are you using?
There is not a lot there in the left and right Si beams as far as I can see for fish and the fish would have to show in the Si beams before they will show in the Di sonar.  At a Si Sensitivity setting of 10 – 12 I would expect to see a stronger left and right Si return than you have in your first screen snapshot.  Is there anyone near you that has a Humminbird Si unit so that you could test their unit on your boat and your unit on their boat?

« Last Edit: June 19, 2012, 11:24:58 AM by Humminbird_Greg »
Greg Walters at Humminbird
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Offline Rough House

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Re: Problem with Side Imaging on my 1198c
« Reply #15 on: June 19, 2012, 10:53:39 AM »
Greg. I don't have the unit infront of me right now so I can't remember what exact setting I have those on. I'll check that and post. As for someone else having a SI unit. Not to my knowledge. I'll have to check some of my local marinas. Will any "SI" unit on a boat work with my 1198? I do know of one guy now that I think about it that has an SI unit. Don't really know him though
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Offline Humminbird_Greg

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Re: Problem with Side Imaging on my 1198c
« Reply #16 on: June 19, 2012, 11:26:02 AM »
Any of the Humminbird Si model units will work Rough House.
Greg Walters at Humminbird
gwalters@johnsonoutdoors.com

Offline Rough House

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Re: Problem with Side Imaging on my 1198c
« Reply #17 on: June 19, 2012, 11:43:14 AM »
Ok Greg. Thanks I just powered up my unit and my settings are as follows. Side view frequency is set at 455. Down imaging beam width is set to Narrow. I'm messing with it on the sim mode now and changing it to med or wide really makes a difference. I think this is what I need to do.
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Offline ITGEEK

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Re: Problem with Side Imaging on my 1198c
« Reply #18 on: June 19, 2012, 11:50:37 AM »
Rough House:
On my 1197c, I could never see any fish on my down-imaging either.
I gave up using DI.

Offline Rough House

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Re: Problem with Side Imaging on my 1198c
« Reply #19 on: June 19, 2012, 11:58:25 AM »
Lol. I wonder what the deal is then. I'll have to give it a try this weekend.
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Offline sonar2000

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Re: Problem with Side Imaging on my 1198c
« Reply #20 on: June 19, 2012, 04:34:16 PM »
In our SAR application I dont recall any fish in DI either..

Chuck

Offline rnvinc

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Re: Problem with Side Imaging on my 1198c
« Reply #21 on: June 19, 2012, 09:36:41 PM »
This is about the best DI image that I've ever been able to capture with my 1197..

I agree with ITGEEK... DI from SI is "lacking at best"...

I have all my DI views hidden...



Rickie


Offline Rough House

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Re: Problem with Side Imaging on my 1198c
« Reply #22 on: June 19, 2012, 10:16:10 PM »
its a shame that nobody seems to be getting good pics with DI with the Si units. 
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Offline Roddy

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Re: Problem with Side Imaging on my 1198c
« Reply #23 on: June 20, 2012, 12:18:31 AM »
Rough House, What do think of these shots?
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Offline reddog

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Re: Problem with Side Imaging on my 1198c
« Reply #24 on: June 20, 2012, 12:56:34 AM »


I dont mess with DI alot, because there is nothing it can show me that cannot be seen in SI.. but here are a few DI images I have taken..





If you have your DI/Si beam set to wide, it will show everything from the surface down..

Here is what is shown with beam set to wide..



Here is what it looked like on the surface



again,,





more fish..







Here you see my 1/4 oz jig on the left side.  You see the fish in DI (center) , but he is buried in the 2d "dead zone" between the the 83 and the 200 printing bottom where the cone edge hits the slope.



again..




Hate to see her go, but love to watch her leave.

Offline Rough House

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Re: Problem with Side Imaging on my 1198c
« Reply #25 on: June 20, 2012, 09:59:40 AM »
Those are some really good pics.  Im gonna do some fine tuning this weekend and see what i come up with.
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Offline Roddy

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Re: Problem with Side Imaging on my 1198c
« Reply #26 on: June 20, 2012, 10:43:22 PM »
Reddog, Your unit seems to be tuned very well.

Roddy
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Offline Rough House

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Re: Problem with Side Imaging on my 1198c
« Reply #27 on: June 20, 2012, 11:39:27 PM »
I agree with roddy. Your pics are beautiful.  Hopefully i can tune mine it to at least come close.
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Offline Roddy

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Re: Problem with Side Imaging on my 1198c
« Reply #28 on: June 21, 2012, 10:02:48 PM »
And Reddog does not have to stop at the 7-11 for ice! :)
Scan,Scan and Rescan Roddy

Offline Rough House

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Re: Problem with Side Imaging on my 1198c
« Reply #29 on: June 26, 2012, 12:25:00 PM »
ok.  So this weekend i tweaked an tweaked and now my unit is working pretty awesome.  Getting some really awesome SI images with fish and structure both.  Switched the DI beam from Narrow to Wide and am now receiving some good returns with fish on it now as well.  When coming into our marina theres 2 sailboats to the left and my SI picks up there keels.  Looks pretty cool. There is also an old broken ladder that fell off the one wall  and now resides on the bottom and it picks it up pretty good also.  So as of now im having little to no problems. The 2d is the best ive used to date.
Thanks everyone for all your help.
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Offline Roddy

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Re: Problem with Side Imaging on my 1198c
« Reply #30 on: June 26, 2012, 02:48:32 PM »
Fish on! Let's see some shots.

Roddy
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Offline reddog

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Re: Problem with Side Imaging on my 1198c
« Reply #31 on: June 27, 2012, 10:35:57 AM »
I agree, we need  some screencaptures..

Its all about the settings..

My settings are completely different than anything ive ever read, but it works for me..  and I'm done upgrading software for those reasons..


Hate to see her go, but love to watch her leave.

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Re: Problem with Side Imaging on my 1198c
« Reply #32 on: June 28, 2012, 12:00:14 AM »
Settings, I change settings so often in one day that I had to reset!

Not the HB unit, My brain-finger interphase!
« Last Edit: June 28, 2012, 10:52:10 AM by Roddy »
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