Author Topic: Fuel Tank Reading  (Read 19465 times)

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Offline 97Aero

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Fuel Tank Reading
« on: January 10, 2014, 08:22:33 PM »
I am hooking up my new 899 HDSI to my Yamaha F90J for engine instrumentation via NMEA 2000 network. I would like to include fuel level inputs but cannot find any hummingbird analog to NMEA cables. Anyone know if the MARETRON fluid level sensors or the Lowarance sensor will work. Since NMEA is a standard I would hope that any of these sensor cables would work and just convert the analog resistance of the tank to NMEA format.

Thanks in advance.


Offline 97Aero

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Re: Fuel Tank Reading
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2014, 02:59:49 PM »
Anybody? Took a chance and bought the Lowrance fuel level cable. We'll see. Found it for $35 on an auction site. Hopefully it works.

Offline RGecy

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Re: Fuel Tank Reading
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2014, 12:17:05 AM »
Bueler?Bueler?  ;D

I have not hooked one up, but Maretron should work and would assume the lowrance would as well.  I take it you have the Humminbird AS-ETH-NMEA2K module and will tie in from there. 

Please post back what you find out about the Lowrance cable.

Good luck,

Robert
Humminbird Guru and Forum Administrator

Offline 97Aero

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Re: Fuel Tank Reading
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2014, 12:42:23 PM »
I am in the Aircraft avionics field. The NMEA 2000 Standard appears to be no different than several different data buss structures the aircraft industry uses. Its all about moving data and a "standard" should be just that, a common way to send and receive data we have a lot more companies in the aviation industry that uses those standards so different manufactures can display the same data in common way. I will be disappointed if the Lowrance  cable won't work with HB system or Maretron or whatever.

Should be interesting and I will know in a few days when my HB Ethernet adapter gets here. Will post my experience.

Offline viper200

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Re: Fuel Tank Reading
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2014, 03:42:45 PM »
I have one and use it. Works just fine.

Offline 97Aero

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Re: Fuel Tank Reading
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2014, 08:43:45 PM »
Viper- Hooked up the Lowrance sensor to my tank sensor unit and plugged it up to the NMEA network. My Bird sees the device but does not display any reading. Configured one of my gauges to read Tank level and nothing. Anything special you had to do or did it just work?
Thanks

Offline viper200

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Re: Fuel Tank Reading
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2014, 11:22:09 AM »
Hi to start with I have a Skeeter with two tanks I'll just talk about tank 1 with a note about tank 2. First go to menu and over to acc then down to NMEA2K Gateway then down to tank 1 (make sure that the radio button is in the Lowrance EP-65R with serial no.) I have keep resetting my second tank to this.  Ok now go back to menu to views make sure that you have anyone of the NMEA2K turned on then back to menu to setup down to select readout  (you have to have the NMEA2K open before you go to this selection). Once there you will see that you can select alot of things but for fuel the window has to be in vessel (use the four way button right or left) once that is there now hit the INFO button and go down to Tank level. You should be go to go from there. Any question  :D

Offline 97Aero

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Re: Fuel Tank Reading
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2014, 07:32:13 PM »
Viper-

Thanks for the input. The Bird defiantly recognizes the EP-65R  and s/n and I have the radio button selected. Then I go to views and setup/select Vessel and add the tank it shows but not fuel quantity. Not sure whats going on. Seems to me like there should be a sub menu after you have the tanks selected to input zero and full fuel quantity etc.

Hbird tech support was of no help. Apparently I am the only one to try to use this setup.

Offline viper200

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Re: Fuel Tank Reading
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2014, 07:35:24 PM »
No I am using it. The only wires that I have connected to the tank are those for the NMEA2K.  I'll post pictures tomorrow.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2014, 07:45:45 PM by viper200 »

Offline 97Aero

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Re: Fuel Tank Reading
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2014, 07:50:09 PM »
I suppose its possible I have got a bad EP-65R. I know my NMEA backbone is good as I have my Engine instruments plumbed to it and have moved them to various T's to ensure that the T's are good to go. And they are. I just hooked up a 220 ohm resistor to the EP sending wires which is in the resistance range of the tank (30-330) and still have nothing. When I hook up my analog gauge back up to the tank it reads correctly.

Crap. Its never easy.

Thanks for the info.

Offline viper200

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Re: Fuel Tank Reading
« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2014, 10:38:32 AM »
These go with the above message

Offline viper200

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Re: Fuel Tank Reading
« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2014, 10:51:14 AM »
next pageila_renderedila_rendered

Offline viper200

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Re: Fuel Tank Reading
« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2014, 10:55:06 AM »
ok next pageila_renderedila_rendered

Offline viper200

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Re: Fuel Tank Reading
« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2014, 10:56:42 AM »
last oneila_renderedila_rendered

Offline 97Aero

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Re: Fuel Tank Reading
« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2014, 06:29:44 PM »
Viper,

Thanks for the pics. My NMEA defiantly recognizes the EP-65 R device gives me a Serial Number and I have the box checked. Whats interesting in your pics is that it shows the same device twice. Mine does not do that. Not sure what that means but all your other scree shots are the same it just gives me no reading. I messed around adding resistors of different values to the EP black and red leads and still get no tank level indicated. Think I got a bum device or that one is set up for oil tank. Geuss for 35 bucks i cannot complain.

One final question- My analog gauge bounced around a lot, does the digital read out do that as well?

Thanks for your time in this I will keep you posted on my progress.

Offline viper200

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Re: Fuel Tank Reading
« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2014, 06:48:58 PM »
I have two tanks on my Skeeter ZX225 and your only seeing one connected the other one has to be configured each time I bring up my Humminbird for some reason it keeps going to the other setting. As for the reading being stable my dose not bounce around. Anything you want me to check on my end ?

Offline 97Aero

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Re: Fuel Tank Reading
« Reply #16 on: January 26, 2014, 06:12:50 AM »
next page (Attachment Link) (Attachment Link)

Viper,

In this image you posted above, you have two EP-65R's connected to your backbone, one for each tank. It shows two lines for each sensor indicating the same serial number. My device only shows one line item with one serial number. Not sure what that means. I just ordered another EP and hopefully its set up for fuel not oil as my original one was. Right now I am in Afghanistan so its going to be a couple of weeks before I get to play around with it some more.

Seems like for some reason when you have two sensors installed it is defaulting to one tanks and making you select the other. Prob a software thing.

Thanks for the info.

Offline viper200

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Re: Fuel Tank Reading
« Reply #17 on: January 26, 2014, 10:03:25 AM »
Yes it is a software problem with just the humminbird the last picture is a Lowrance LMF-400 and it shows both tanks.

Offline viper200

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Re: Fuel Tank Reading
« Reply #18 on: January 30, 2014, 06:08:20 PM »
I need to add that your sensors are just a level sensor just like mind and should work I would recheck that your setting on your unit. Try disconnecting and reconnecting your NMEA connection for your ER-65 and see what happens.

Offline 97Aero

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Re: Fuel Tank Reading
« Reply #19 on: January 30, 2014, 06:19:19 PM »
Viper. Yeah I did that with my old EP 65 several times. The bird defiantly knows its there but no fuel reading. This one was marked on the side for Oil. I ordered another one marked for fuel and hopefully that will be the fix. I leave the Stan tomorrow and will be stateside in my garage trying it again on Saturday afternoon.

Will keep you posted.

Thanks

Offline 97Aero

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Re: Fuel Tank Reading
« Reply #20 on: February 01, 2014, 05:30:00 PM »
Got back from Afg. this morning. Had a brand new EP-65R sitting on the kitchen table. Couldn't wait to try it. Hooked it up and wa la…NOTHING! Crap. This sensor the Bird didn't recognize at all. WTF. At least my old sensor showed it was there just not fuel reading. I am at a loss right now. Hooked up my old one and the bird saw it again just no reading. Moved the new one to several different taps on my NMEA backbone and still nothing noted. Do not know what to do at this point. Half tempted to stick with the analog gauge but its pissing me off now.

Viper- What model Bird do you have and what is the SW version?


Offline viper200

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Re: Fuel Tank Reading
« Reply #21 on: February 01, 2014, 07:14:43 PM »
Good to see your back home. Now for the NMEA2K backbone mine is connected to the NMEA2K adapter then connected to the Ethernet switch giving me the ability to see my NMEA2K sensors on both of my units (898 and 998). Software ver. 6.740 on both.  What else do you have connected to the NMEA2K backbone?
« Last Edit: February 01, 2014, 07:18:29 PM by viper200 »

Offline 97Aero

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Re: Fuel Tank Reading
« Reply #22 on: February 01, 2014, 08:10:33 PM »
Heres my basic setup. I have tried putting the power T in different spots with respect to the engine and fuel sensor. I have both ends of the backbone terminated. Tried swapping the engine and fuel to different Taps. I do not have any cables between the T's they are all ganged together. Might slave in a cable here or there tomorrow to try. Not sure that will matter but just add signal loss due the cable and connectors but ill try it anyway.

Offline viper200

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Re: Fuel Tank Reading
« Reply #23 on: February 02, 2014, 01:46:35 PM »
Well with your new sensor connected up try doing a factory reset to your unit and see what happens.

Offline 97Aero

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Re: Fuel Tank Reading
« Reply #24 on: February 02, 2014, 10:13:29 PM »
Tried that today. No luck. Yeah I got nothing left to try. Defiantly thought it would be easier than this.

Offline viper200

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Re: Fuel Tank Reading
« Reply #25 on: February 03, 2014, 08:46:31 AM »
Well I went out today and with a meter did some checks. 1st one with leads connected voltage setting. .986 VDC, next one with the black disconnected. Sensor .970 VDC and just the tank reading .989 VDC.  OK now I turned off the power to the NMEA2K backbone and these are the res. reading connected 95.7 , sensor only 92.1 and tank only 95.7 . Keep in mind that my tank is at the 62-65% level.  Hope this helps.

Offline 97Aero

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Re: Fuel Tank Reading
« Reply #26 on: February 03, 2014, 09:39:26 PM »
Viper,

Thanks for taking the time to ohm out those wires. I will take a look and compare to what I got and let you know. I've been in the Avionics field for 26 yrs and this simple analog to digital circuit has me stumped. Starting to think that the Bird software may have issues or the NMEA standard is not all that its cracked up to be or mature enough across product lines.


Offline 97Aero

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Re: Fuel Tank Reading
« Reply #27 on: February 04, 2014, 12:53:07 PM »
Starting to wonder if your system works because you have the LMF-400 gauge. Assume you did the setup and calibration via the LMF-400 gauge. Maybe that is my problem. Dunno.


Offline viper200

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Re: Fuel Tank Reading
« Reply #28 on: February 04, 2014, 03:07:27 PM »
Not sure of that because the only thing I get from the sensor is the % of the tank and not the total amount of gas I have in it. The LMF-400 tells me the total amount I have left after telling it what is the full level.

Offline 97Aero

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Re: Fuel Tank Reading
« Reply #29 on: February 10, 2014, 08:00:23 PM »
Viper,

Appreciate all your help. Hopefully my anguish will help somebody else some day. Anyway turned out that I had two issues. First was that one of the drop T's I had was bad. This drove me nuts as you might imagine. Replaced it and all was well with whatever was plugged in there. The second issue that I had was that the EP-65R sensors have to be set up correctly on the buss. Only way to do this was to purchase a Lowrance LMF-200 gauge. Got it today and hooked everything up and it bam all was there. Went in and configured my original sensor for Fuel Level, not Oil as it was set up as and now I got it talking on the buss and with my bird. I configured my second EP-65R and got that one talking on the buss too with a 200 ohm resistor across the leads.

So turns out Lowrance equipment needs other gauges at least until they get configured correctly, and bad drop T's will give you fits.

What a PITA, again thanks for your help and research.


Offline viper200

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Re: Fuel Tank Reading
« Reply #30 on: February 10, 2014, 09:04:58 PM »
Good to hear,but did not think you needed a LMF-200 unit to get it to work.  Nice to know for future help to some one else.
One question did you try it without the LMF-200 connected.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2014, 09:11:10 PM by viper200 »

Offline 97Aero

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Re: Fuel Tank Reading
« Reply #31 on: February 10, 2014, 10:01:29 PM »
Viper. Yes it does work without the LMF-200 gauge. I think it is just needed during the the initial setup configuration. Once that is done you are good to go with the Bird. I suppose it is good to have to set the full and empty tank values during calibration. Guess I will keep it and replace my analog gauge with it. It does display a lot of data once you scroll thru all the menus.

Offline viper200

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Re: Fuel Tank Reading
« Reply #32 on: February 27, 2014, 11:22:06 AM »
Look at what I found out these sensors "EP-65R Fluid Level: 000-0120-41
-
Outputs: Tank Number, Fluid Type, Fluid Level, Tank Capacity
-
Fluid level types supported: Fuel, Fresh Water, Waste Water, Live Well, Oil, Black Water
-
Can be configured or calibrated only using LMF gauges"

Looks like you will need one (LMF-200 or LMF-400) to get it to work right.

Offline 97Aero

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Re: Fuel Tank Reading
« Reply #33 on: February 27, 2014, 05:57:54 PM »
Yup. Guess thats what keeps them in business. All is well know on both my Bird and the gauges. Thanks for the info.


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